Do you think they should make a compact blowback 9x19 pistol?

Should they make a compact, blowback, 9x19 auto pistol?

  • Yes, they should make one

    Votes: 27 30.7%

  • No, they shouldn't make one

    Votes: 61 69.3%
  • Total voters
    88
  • Poll closed .
S

Smaug

New member
I was just thinking. 9x19 is not too much more powerful than 9x18 or 9x17. The German research that the Russians captured after WW2 indicated that something along the line of the 9x18 was the most powerful round that could be effectively chambered in a straight blowback design.

The Hi-Point pistols have challenged this, and succeeded to some degree, going all the way up to 45 ACP. Their slides are quite bulky, but one could say they are effective.

So why doesn't anyone make a relatively compact, straight blowback 9x19? It would have a slightly stiffer recoil spring, a slightly heavier slide, and nice aggressive cocking serrations. The slide could be made heavier by making it longer. Maybe the gun would have a bit longer barrel than a 380 to get this additional weight in the slide. Maybe the slide would be forged instead of cast, so that it wouldn't have to be bulkier. (I know Ruger won't like this idea, hehehe) Maybe the additional production cost of forging the slide would be offset by the simplified lock-up. (i.e. none needed!) The gun would be more accurate than a locked breech gun with the same barrel length and sight radius due to the fixed barrel.

What do you guys think? Would it work?

I think it would. Lots of folks like 380s and 9mm Makarov guns. Lots of other folks feel a bit safer with the "full power 9mm Luger" cartridge. Why not build this gun and make EVERYONE happy?

Please don't say that Hi-Point has already made that gun. They haven't. I'm talking about a high quality compact one, not a cheapie.

I bet if they put their minds to it, they could make one that's just a tad bigger than the PPK/S or Bersa Thunder 380.
 
Would the gas retarded system as found on an HK MP7 count?

Lots of folks like 380s and 9mm Makarov guns.
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That's true, but I am not one of them. I thought a walther ppk would be neat until I fired one. They seemed designed to produce recoil, and only incidentally also fire a bullet. (slight exaggeration).

I don't see a pistol that bucks twice as much as a 1911 .45 while it shoots a bullet half the size going over all that well.
 
I voted yes, just for the engineering aspects of it, trying to figure out the issues of doing higher power blowback designs might lead to further improvements for all firearms.
 
Isn't the Diamondback DB9 blowback? or am I mistaken?

I do really wish there were more subcompact 9mm's, if/when concealed carry comes to IL ill probably opt for a palm sized 9mm, regardless of the action. More blowbacks would be nice cause they'd be a bit cheaper, and maybe a bit lighter...but im not sure about that.

I'm not the most knowledgeable person, but when you start dealing with higher power and higher pressure cartridges, isnt there a reliability issue with blowback because the spring has to be --juuuust right-?

The question is, what advantage does blowback offer to the consumer versus a weapon like the Sig 239 or 290, or the Kel-tec PF-9 or P-11?
 
It's been done. Smith & Wesson sold a pistol for a while that was, I believe, a straight blowback in 9mm. I do remember firing one but I don't remember the model number, there being so many these days. It was indeed a little sharp to fire but so is a Makarov. The most unusal thing about it was the magazine that was released by pinching the sides somewhere. They were making some unusual but innovative pistols around then.

However, it doesn't follow that a blowback would be cheaper, nor lighter.
 
No, I don't see any point to it ....

I suppose it could make something in a 9mm - a little bit smaller ...but much smaller / to some of us - makes it less "shootable" as well. The stiffer recoil spring required on a pure blowback ...would make it difficult for older people with weak hands - or any shooter with some strength issues in their hands - would make it difficult to manipulate ( and that's the complaint I hear most often from ladies especially on the pure blowbacks as a purse gun ).
 
I really don't see the point. There are a lot of small, locked breech 9MM's around now. The recoil spring would have to be very strong. It would be difficult to rack the slide and have a sharp felt recoil.

The Russians did they best they could with the 9MM Makarov caliber in a blowback and I think we should just leave it there.
 
People moan and whine about .380 blowback guns being too much, too sharp in recoil, too "snappy", etc. What would be the point of a more snappy, hard to rack pistol? Why do you need a blowback 9mm when there are already well designed and reliable small 9mm pistols available. Buy a Roahrbaugh or a Kahr.;)
 
How about a H&K P9S ?
It's a blowback without much snap ,Mine is a dream to shoot .
 
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In point of fact it is a delayed roller blowback ,just like a G3. A blow back with a delayed bolt with rollers is still a blowback .;)And it is a very accurate relieable pistol with a magnificent trigger .
 
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The Hi-Point pistols have challenged this, and succeeded to some degree, going all the way up to 45 ACP.
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They don't challenge the real issue. It's clearly possible to make a blowback pistol in calibers more powerful than .380ACP, but it forces the designer to go with a very strong recoil spring and/or a very heavy slide. You can only go so heavy on the spring before people start having problems working the slide. And you can only go so heavy on the slide before you can't find a material dense enough to get the weight you need to make the gun work properly.

The Russians hammered on this problem for awhile--trying to get 9x19 performance out of the basic Makarov design--before they finally gave up and went to a full-sized, locked breech 9mm.
I bet if they put their minds to it, they could make one that's just a tad bigger than the PPK/S or Bersa Thunder 380.
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It's one of those laws of physics things. If you want a small pistol chambered for something more than 9x17/9x18, it's not feasible to do it without employing some method besides simple blowback to hold the breech closed long enough to prevent case failures.
In point of facy it is a delayed roller blowback...
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The point is that there's something holding the breech closed (or slowing the movement of the bolt/breech/slide) other than spring force and the weight of the slide.

That kind of thing can be done, but it's worthwhile to note that the only companies who seem to be taking that approach aren't exactly doing it to keep costs down nor for the sake of simplicity.
 
The only way to make a 9mm blowback pistol is to increase the mass of the bolt, which makes the compactness irrelevant. A compact pistol that weighs more than a full size pistol is not worth having.
 
The only way to make a 9mm blowback pistol is to increase the mass of the bolt, which makes the compactness irrelevant. A compact pistol that weighs more than a full size pistol is not worth having.
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exactly
 
9x19 is not too much more powerful than 9x18 or 9x17.
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I think twice the chamber pressure and around twice the bullet energy would qualify as "much more powerful." Which really works against a compact blowback 9mm P pistol.

The only true compact I know of is the commercially unsuccessful Sirkis/Sardius SD9 which depends on an ultra stiff double or treble recoil spring and a Mann type annular chamber groove.
 
Simple physics

Like a see-saw or a scale. If you have a 10 gram weight on one side of a scale - you will need to place a 10 gram weight on the other side of the scale to lift it.

Straight blowback has hard and fast limitations as to what can be done with it. That's why they invented things like gas delayed, and roller delayed blow back, etc...
 
It's like asking, "should they make a less than 5.5" OAL-compact 10mm that only weighs 14oz ?

Um... well thay could, but the laws of physics probably would dictate that it wouldn't work...
 
How about you give me $800 for my Hi-Point C9? Then you'll have an expensive blowback 9mm just like you asked for. :D
 
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