Do you think our forefathers had current guns in mind when writing the 2nd Amendment?

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Tom Servo said:
Many of those uniforms were being worn by hired mercenaries and members of the California Highway Patrol who'd been deputized and brought in.
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Mercenaries? As in non-LEO? This is the first mention I've ever seen of any "mercenaries" being deployed in Noo Orleans after Katrina. As to the CHiPs ... they are LEO, whether we like it or not.

Tom, your local LEOs might take their oath seriously, but I feel pretty confident that those in most larger cities would cheerfully go around confiscating firearms if given the order. I chatted up a city police officer in a Burger King at lunch yesterday while his partner fielded a phone call. My question was about a headline article recommending armed security in schools, but his attitude in responding tells me that his attitude goes beyond schools.

"Only the police should be allowed to have guns," was his answer. "There are too many guns out there and too many crazy people."

This guy couldn't even form a coherent sentence in English, so I knew I was dealing with an inner city cop. The officers in most of the smaller towns around here have graduated from college, and many have degrees specifically in criminal justice. In the city, they keep lowering the hiring standards so members of various minorities can pass the qualification exam. This guy was proof that their diversity program is successful.
 
Aguila Blanca said:
This is the first mention I've ever seen of any "mercenaries" being deployed in Noo Orleans after Katrina.
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Blackwater - claimed to have a DHS contract (probable given security work in Iraq) and also did a spiffy business with NOLA's wealthier citizens. Some were deputized by Louisiana authorities. Blackwater was also headquartered in NC, which has quaint laws allowing "company police."
 
dorc#1 said:
Keep posting. The NSA is taking names and you'll be the first ones thrown in jail.
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Okay Alex, I'll be on the look out for black helicopters with the Bilderberg Group logo on them.:p
 
The US military has not operated without a secure rear support area in living memory. That alone makes a HUGE difference. Attack helicopters only work if you have a secure airbase in range of your target to send them from. Planes don't really work all that well at all, especially if your relatively delicate smart munitions factories are facing sabotage.

If the Afghanis with no money, no manufacturing base, minimal external support, AND facing NATO secure rear support areas can mount a successful insurgency, I don't see how US citizens could not possibly do it.

"mercenaries" were absolutely deployed in NO following Katrina. More than likely in other domestic situations, but there is a mountain of easily accessible info regarding their deployment following Katrina.
 
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I am in Louisiana. During Katrina, there were police officers and some national guardsmen involved in these home invasions. This is the first I heard of mercenaries.
 
yeah, they were there. If you look on Wikipedia, you can read about them and see a couple of images.

Everybody went to Katrina. ICE, CBP, the Georgia Guard, myself included, everybody.
 
We are quickly turning our Country into a Chicken Coop, guarded by a Government of Wolves.

I trust the Government, about as far as I can throw Mt. Rushmore.

If the Founding Fathers, not sheepdogs but Lions, had come back during our lifetimes and observed the Government, while I would not advocate this as I have experienced War before, I am sure we would be in the middle of the 2nd American Revolution.

I am sure the Founding Fathers meant for us the Citizenry to be armed with the weapons of our time, just as they were armed with the weapons of their time.
 
I still haven't made up my mind about what it is about the present governments (of those I live under--there are thousands of others) that I don't like. Perhaps you all (all of you all) could make some suggestions for me to ponder.

Now to whoever it was that mentioned a rouge government: did you mean "red?"

I still have lots of problems with people's general thinking on the subject. For instance, if you get rid of all the old politicians (and I think they are in fact all old), then where are you going to get the new one? Are there elections going on that I don't know about? Likewise, the armed forces: where did they come from? Are they not American, too, along with the police, very few of whom are federal. I'm not sure any comparison with Afganistan in any way has any relevance here. My new son-in-law is supposed to be going there within the next few months, so perhaps I can get some inside information from him. In the meantime, my wife's first cousin works in Kabul as a civilian and not for the United States. I think he'll be home sometime in the next month (he's very footloose) and I'll bring up the subject with him if I see him. He has also lived in Yugoslavia before the civil war there and correctly predicted what would happen. He's been in Afganistan for a long time and has even written a book on the subject.

I've also heard that firearms laws in Germany were liberalized by Hitler. Can it be that lots of things I've heard are false?
 
I've also heard that firearms laws in Germany were liberalized by Hitler. Can it be that lots of things I've heard are false?
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The gun control laws requiring registration of civilian owned firearms were put in 1928 by the Weimar Government (interestingly enough, in an effort to disarm the Brownshirts) ..... but it was these same registration lists that were used to round up all the Jewish Gun owners 10 years later when they outlawed gun ownership by Jews in 1938 (and added a "sporting purposes" requirement for non-Nazi Party members).

I know these to be true:
1. If you give someone a tool, they'll look for a way to use it.
2. Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power corrupts Absolutely.
3. The most danagerous man is the one who claims to be doing things to you "for your own good."
4. Men are flawed, and the Government is made of men. An all powerful Government by men "for my own good" is about as bad as it gets.
 
BlueTrain, you offer a false dichotomy. Something you heard does not have to be false (though it could have been). You could have heard or remembered incorrectly; you could have remembered incompletely; you could have added your own assumptions on top of what you heard.

Anybody could have done the same. This is one reason why few things are black and white.

I am concerned, though, that you still cannot come up with any expansions of federal power that you do not like. This does make it hard to accept some of your other arguments, as it implies a kool-aid level of big government fandom, and loss of perspective.

Hopefully you can come up with some reasonable concerns about federal power grabs, if only to prove you know how to look at things from other perspectives.
 
Are you folks only worried about the federal government or all the others as well? I mention that because I believe there is more corruption at state and local levels, although that does not imply abuse of power. There can be abuses of power with no corruption whatsoever.
 
I did not want to start a new thread because I think this applies here. An anti gun advocate was challenging several pro gun people to cite a specific instance where a person using a semi auto rifle like an AR to defend themselves against a mob. Living in Louisiana I cited business owners and homeowners after Katrina. Their response is that you cannot find a citation of a AR being used. Now I was in New Orleans, actually helped remove items from a French quarter shop for a friend of mine. I saw people armed with all number of firearms including ARs but if course no media did any stories on this because they were not there in the beginning. I cannot cite any of them actually shooting on the mob. Also, not like anyone in the media would do a positive story about a civ defending themselves with an AR but in most cases BGs disperse when they see the first sign of firepower. Any thoughts on this argument. I think it is mostly along the lines of prove to me you have stopped beating your wife, but interested in some of your thoughts.
 
There is a picture floating around, GoogleImage would be a good start, of a Korea shopowner, or possibly friend, brother, husband, whatever of a shopower standing atop a store during the Rodney King riots packing a Mini-14.

Not an AR-15, but still a magazine fed semi-automatic .223 caliber carbine.

AHA! Found it.

http://askakorean.blogspot.com/2011/01/los-angeles-times-recently-ran-story.html

A Mini-14, a Mossberg riot gun, and some sort of black rifle.

The argument for a high capacity magazine becomes a lot clearer when you look at a mob of miscreants instead of one guy with pantyhose on his head.
 
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i believe the founding fathers meant to include the most up to date firearms of the time in the second amendment, and that includes our time as well. the founding fathers knew that weapons evolve, they saw it in their lifetimes. why would people of today that revere the founding fathers for their foresight in their writings believe that there would be no advances in weaponry and the second amendment would not include modern arms as well? should the 2nd amendment include future weapons like lasers, partical beams, even marvin the martins ray gun? i say yes. it is not the type or style of weapon the second amendment refers to, it is the absolute right of people to be able to own these weapons.
 
Do you think our forefathers had current guns in mind when writing the 2nd Amendment?
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Did they have the "modern" firearms of their time in mind when they originally wrote it?

Yes.
 
Are you folks only worried about the federal government or all the others as well?
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I have a whole lot more influence on State and Local government than I do on the Federal Government.

It is much easier to keep tabs on them (State and Local). The Feds have no effective limit on resources (when they run out of money, they just borrow more- many States do this as well, but not mine!), which is definitely not so of my State and Local governments.

IME, the State of Nebraska and my County and Village governments are much less intrusive than the Feds...... so no, I think I'll worry more about the 800 lb gorilla (with a record of hurting people) in the room than I will about the well behaved Lab or the snoozing chihuahua.
 
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