Do you need at least 10 shots to establish a valid group?

James K said:
Since the "target" is a representation of an "enemy" soldier, we can assume "the enemy" will be firing back. So what will an "X" shot group prove, no matter what number X is? Either you "kill" him with your first shot or you won't get a second.
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Well, I'd say that if you don't neutralize him with your first shot, you might not get a second chance.

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Most of us don't like to think about killing another person, even someone we, or our country, considers "the enemy." That is why the first job of military trainers is to "dehumanize" the enemy, by depicting him as an evil, subhuman monster, scum to be disposed of, so we can "march forward into the glorious future...." and so forth. And in some cases the enemy may be just that. Or he may be just another poor SOB hoping to get through a war alive and go home to his family, just like you. But no matter, the enemy's way home is through or over his enemy, and if you are his enemy, you have to stop him. Kill or be killed is not some silly motto, it is cold, hard truth, whether you are a soldier in a war, or a cop facing an armed criminal, or a homeowner dealing with a murderous intruder.

Yes, "neutralize" is a nicer word than "kill". And technically, you can disable an enemy without killing him. But when you shoot at someone, even when you choose to arm yourself, you have to know that the result may be his death (or yours).

Oddly, we hear those euphemisms only when the "target" is human. I have never heard a hunter bragging about "neutralizing" a 12 point buck or a half dozen geese.

Jim
 
Good points.

I read Capt. Charlie's signature line a few days ago, and it summarizes my thoughts on the issue so well: "I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do."
 
My father taught me to fire five round groups. It was more common to fire three. I feel that a group of five is a whole lot easier to identify a center on.
 
If you are shooting some type match, probably 10 shot group's would be best! But if your hunting, not often you'll ever get to fire a third shot, most I think never have to fire the second, I'd hope! So, for me it's three shot group, the third shot telling me if the load isn't so hot or I'm not so hot. If you have three shot's going into say 3/4", where would you think the 4th and 5th shot are gonna go if you do your part?
 
To me a shooting a group is a method of testing a rifle or a handgun, the same way that patterning tests a shotgun. It is perfectly OK in that respect and can show up both a defective gun and/or a poor shooting performance. A good tool, as long as the shooter is under no illusion that a 3 or 5 or 10 shot "group" will matter in a situation where only the first shot counts.

Jim
 
If you are shooting groups to test the accuracy of the rifle/load or to establish a zero, I would shoot from a bench at an appropriate target. Once the accuracy of the rifle/ammo/optic combination and zero have been established, I can move on to test myself or attempt to develop skill. I don't think the Army qualification target or silhouette targets are good choices for this type of testing or zeroing.

If you are shooting to test your skill from various field positions, using a target that represents what you may be shooting at makes sense. A silhouette of an "enemy" soldier, a deer shaped target with the vitals marked in a way you can't see them until you check the target, a steel or paper plate approximating the size of a game animal's vitals and etc., all make sense to test your skills. But I'm not concerned with group size but rather if the vitals are hit or not. If I'm shooting a post qualification target, I don't care if I get a 1.75" group, I care if I hit the propper part of the target.
 
To make an advertised product claim, I think you need 100 shots from 10 barrels (10 sets of testing) spaced 5 s apart and 1 min reloads for a pistol or AR type rifle. For a bolt rifle 1 shot every 30s with 1 min reloads. Fired from a jig.

For reloading, 5 shot groups unless your sport has larger groups then, double the sport's group size. Fired by the shooter from a solid rest.
 
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