Evan Thomas
Inactive
Daugherty16 said:
Goes for others in this thread too... undisirregardless.
Do YOU intervene?
- Thread starter wickedrider
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Goes for others in this thread too... undisirregardless.
onthejon55
Moderator
MLeake said:
Depends on whats in the duffel bag....
No, it doesn't.
Sorry, sometimes stuff is just stuff. And if it's that important, I'll pursue, myself. Strangers shouldn't pull guns over stuff, it's unwise, and in most cases illegal. And it's never a good idea to impersonate LEO's; the real LEO's take that very, very badly.
Sorry, sometimes stuff is just stuff. And if it's that important, I'll pursue, myself. Strangers shouldn't pull guns over stuff, it's unwise, and in most cases illegal. And it's never a good idea to impersonate LEO's; the real LEO's take that very, very badly.
I don't have a CWP because I live in Illinois, but if I had one, I would NOT have intervened.
A concealed weapons permit gives you the right to carry, and defend yourself against life threatening situations. It does NOT give you the authority to be a LEO, and stop a petty crime like this.
Had this BG been beating the homeless man with a pipe, then thats a different story. But watching somebody stealing somebody else's bag does NOT give you the right, as a normal citizen, to draw your weapon...period. However, I do not wish this man to be convicted.
A concealed weapons permit gives you the right to carry, and defend yourself against life threatening situations. It does NOT give you the authority to be a LEO, and stop a petty crime like this.
Had this BG been beating the homeless man with a pipe, then thats a different story. But watching somebody stealing somebody else's bag does NOT give you the right, as a normal citizen, to draw your weapon...period. However, I do not wish this man to be convicted.
WildAlaska said:
I'd trust some folks on a few forums over some of the California cops when it comes to firearms law. I'm sure Alaskan laws are pretty straightforward compared to California, MA, or NJ. You might be able to trust that your LEOs will know the law -- or at least read ALL of the statute -- before arresting someone. Not always the case here.
Apparently the cops in a large central California town never heard of People v. Clark which defined what constitutes a loaded firearm. I just read where the PD claimed someone's gun was "loaded" because he had ammo inside the locked gunbox.
A couple of bay area residents have been arrested for "assault weapon" violations. One because the officer ignored the "centerfire rifle" element of the crime and seized his .22LR AR rifle as an "assault weapon".
Another was arrested because the magazine appeared to be detachable -- yet the officer, evidence-room officer and the PD's armorer couldn't figure out how to remove the magazine, so they pounded it out with a mallet. (Sound like a fixed magazine to you?). It cost him almost $10k to defend himself.
An officer at a central coast range arrested a patron for possesing an "assault pistol" - despite his Broomhandle Mauser being a C&R firearm and thus exempt from the laws. This was pointed out prior to his being transported to jail. Took him 37 days to get his pistol back.
Most cops in California couldn't tell an assault weapon from a frackin' BB gun.
After reading all, well, almost all of the posts on this thread no truer words have ever been spoken as the comment made to me during a break of my CCW class. The young man said: "It sounds like this CCW can get you in more trouble than it can get you out of!" I think that I'm starting to agree with him.
FireForged
New member
I am very pro Police but I think there is a huge difference between knowing enough about codified elements to effectively get your job done and actually understanding legal construction of a statute. I honestly do not think that the majority of Police in this Country would tell you to get your legal advice from them.. I think they would tell you to speak to a lawyer.
onthejon55
Moderator
MLeake said:
Ive heard plenty of stories and know of one personally in which a bag was stolen that contained medicine which the victim was dependent on such as an inhaler. In one case the victim died as a result of not getting her severe asthma under control in time.
No one thinks so. We've all made that clear.
I don't think that I would intervene with strangers until the gunman fired his first shot, be it at an inanimate object or a human being (he can shoot as many animals as he wants).
In my eyes he has to show intent, and just brandishing his gun is not intent enough for me to get involved.
If I happened across a guy holding a gun to another guy, I would hide and call the cops and keep an eye on him. I'd figure he's either a plainclothes cop or a mugger, and muggers don't usually shoot their victim, especially if there are people around.
In my eyes he has to show intent, and just brandishing his gun is not intent enough for me to get involved.
If I happened across a guy holding a gun to another guy, I would hide and call the cops and keep an eye on him. I'd figure he's either a plainclothes cop or a mugger, and muggers don't usually shoot their victim, especially if there are people around.
Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
Yep, and I know people who survived car accidents because they weren't wearing their seatbelt.... But I still wear mine. Why? Well, because there are 10,000 who died because they weren't wearing a seatbelt for every one who survived because they weren't.
In other words, I'm not involving myself and my gun in a stolen purse situation just because somebody somewhere died because they lost their allergy medicine.
The odds of things going very badly for all of us are a whole lot higher than the odds of someone needing the medicine in the bag.
WOW...im going to go out on a limb here... and let everyone flamne me>>>
BUT: guy #1 was trying to do the right thing...and stopped the crime...NO one was injured
i think the old school western law should be in effect here... its bull stuff that you are all bashing him saying hes an idiot...whgat makes you better than him.
how many of you have ACTUALLY ever unholstered your firearm? other than to polish it or plink at targets? yes i know some of you are experienced.
I have unholstered a pistol and pointed it right at a dirtbag! he was beating the stuffing out of a girl in our hotel parking lot and i felt pretty confident in the fact that he would have raped her....so did i do the wrong thing? YOU might think so but i can bet you SHE doesnt think i did!
the ones you should be criticizing here are the ones who arrested these 2 GOOD citizens AND the DA for not immediately letting the free and rewarding them with medals!
IF more good people got involved and didnt hide out of fear from the "LAW", (OUR law) this would be a better country and even world. 50 years ago they would have slapped the snot out of the guy stealing the bag and shook the hands of the 2 who stopped the crime!
Go back and read some of the stuff you guys wrote down...shocking
BUT: guy #1 was trying to do the right thing...and stopped the crime...NO one was injured
i think the old school western law should be in effect here... its bull stuff that you are all bashing him saying hes an idiot...whgat makes you better than him.
how many of you have ACTUALLY ever unholstered your firearm? other than to polish it or plink at targets? yes i know some of you are experienced.
I have unholstered a pistol and pointed it right at a dirtbag! he was beating the stuffing out of a girl in our hotel parking lot and i felt pretty confident in the fact that he would have raped her....so did i do the wrong thing? YOU might think so but i can bet you SHE doesnt think i did!
the ones you should be criticizing here are the ones who arrested these 2 GOOD citizens AND the DA for not immediately letting the free and rewarding them with medals!
IF more good people got involved and didnt hide out of fear from the "LAW", (OUR law) this would be a better country and even world. 50 years ago they would have slapped the snot out of the guy stealing the bag and shook the hands of the 2 who stopped the crime!
Go back and read some of the stuff you guys wrote down...shocking
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
1)Never have, hope never to, having done so doesn't make you better or smarter.
2)A girl getting beat in a parking lot is decidedly different than a stolen duffel bag.
OldMarksman
Staff
It probably is.
Think so?
Anyone know whether the laws have changed in this regard in Idaho since 1959? 1909?
Was it OK to impersonate a peace officer then?
Drawing a gun on someone suspected of stealing a duffel bag, with no weapons showing? Great example of a responsible CCW holder. 
As the holder of a CCW permit, there is no legal duty to intervene. In fact, intervening exposes you to far greater legal jeopardy, as shown in the OP.
I carry a gun to protect me and mine from death or grave bodily injury. Not to prevent someone from stealing a homeless guy's duffel bag.
As the holder of a CCW permit, there is no legal duty to intervene. In fact, intervening exposes you to far greater legal jeopardy, as shown in the OP.
I carry a gun to protect me and mine from death or grave bodily injury. Not to prevent someone from stealing a homeless guy's duffel bag.
FlyGuy...
... wow... just wow.
FYI, I've intervened in beatdowns before, when I wasn't carrying. I've defended women on sidewalks and in a hotel bar from assaults in progress.
I'm also getting ready to retire as a naval aviator in the near future, and will be heading to Afghanistan in the fall as a defense contractor.
Please lecture me some more about timidity, why don't you?
If you can't see the difference between intervening when a man is getting stomped or a woman is being beaten, and a guy running away with a duffel that may have been stolen from a third party, then I think you are in for an interesting and potentially unpleasant life.
To all the guys who seem so eager to use a weapon: if you can pass the psych exams (which isn't necessarily a given) then there are plenty of open positions in the Army and Marines, or Border Patrol, or any number of PD's and SD's. My guess is that most of the chest beaters here would either fail the psych or the physical, but feel free to prove me wrong.
... wow... just wow.
FYI, I've intervened in beatdowns before, when I wasn't carrying. I've defended women on sidewalks and in a hotel bar from assaults in progress.
I'm also getting ready to retire as a naval aviator in the near future, and will be heading to Afghanistan in the fall as a defense contractor.
Please lecture me some more about timidity, why don't you?
If you can't see the difference between intervening when a man is getting stomped or a woman is being beaten, and a guy running away with a duffel that may have been stolen from a third party, then I think you are in for an interesting and potentially unpleasant life.
To all the guys who seem so eager to use a weapon: if you can pass the psych exams (which isn't necessarily a given) then there are plenty of open positions in the Army and Marines, or Border Patrol, or any number of PD's and SD's. My guess is that most of the chest beaters here would either fail the psych or the physical, but feel free to prove me wrong.
What Harm?
What harm did it cause when CCW #1 told the thief that he was a police officer? The question is not whether or not, and I know that it is, a crime to do so. The question is what harm did it cause. No what if's, what may have happened, or any other projection. In this case and having nothing to do with the use of his CCW, what was the harm in it? I will not respond to any posts that go outside the framework of my post, or any of the nut cases on the forum!
What harm did it cause when CCW #1 told the thief that he was a police officer? The question is not whether or not, and I know that it is, a crime to do so. The question is what harm did it cause. No what if's, what may have happened, or any other projection. In this case and having nothing to do with the use of his CCW, what was the harm in it? I will not respond to any posts that go outside the framework of my post, or any of the nut cases on the forum!
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Brian Pfleuger
Moderator Emeritus
It most certainly is a crime to tell someone that you are a cop, especially and specifically when you are ACTING like a cop.
The "harm" is that it is a crime. There doesn't need to be more than that. It shows poor judgement and a willingness to commit illegal acts when it benefits self. Neither of those things should be combined with carrying a gun.
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