Do You Have To Pay Income Taxes?

Ausserordeutlich:

You are still missing my point. I am telling him that if you file for thirty straight years and you don't file an extension, or any report at all, it would most probably spur and audit.

I didn't say you had to pay taxes in a year you earned no income, I am saying in a year you earn no income, the IRS is more likely to conduct an AUDIT to verify the fact, and since they can totally ruin your life FOREVER, it is probably best to file something that year.

You have to consider the power trip some of the people who work for not just the IRS, but your local law enforcement agencies.

Four or five months ago our County Sheriff Department proudly announced in a press release, that the S.W.A.T. team agreed to assist an IRS Agent by SERVING A WARRANT BY DYNAMIC ENTRY on a pencil necked, fifty year old, unarmed CERTIFIED PUBLIC ACCOUNTANT for the dastardly act of filing a tax return that the agent felt was a FALSE one.

(I can only guess they yelled "Sheriffs Office, Throw down the calculator and put your hands behind your back! Do it NOW!")

I ain't a C.P.A., and I ain't a lawyer. But I will say this. It is probably a whole heck of a lot smarter to file a return or at least some type of extension or statement of exemption than to take the chance of getting the same examiner who decided to audit this old boy with the help of a county S.W.A.T team assist.
 
The real question here isn't whether or not we should have to pay taxes. It should be why are we taxed so heavily and taxed differently?

Taxes are necessary, we need roads and highways and other such things.
 
Gary, I didn't miss your point. You didn't make your point, as far as I can tell, until your last post. Previously, you said that everyone must file, even those with no income, or a crime had been committed.

We agree that the IRS can make you miserable. So can other taxing authorities. The IRS gets copies of all 1099s and W-2s. If neither shows sufficient income that qualifies one for having to file a return, then they're not likely to audit you. The IRS audits less than 2% of all returns filed.

Estate taxes, in my opinion, are the most repressive and outrageous of all the taxes. Death should not be a taxable event. Estate taxation is the purest form of socialistic wealth distribution.
 
Before you go off on the "See you in prision" tangent it was on the news a couple years back that an airline pilot actualy beat the IRS in court. Granted it costed many thousands if not hundreds of thousands but it proves that it can be done. Is it worth it? I'll let you all decide that on your own. The increasing number of TV ads saying "Settle your IRS debt for pennies...." Leads me to believe something is up.



Link here:
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/irstax.htm


The long story short. The govt. can't prove a law exists so they just make your life hell rather then admit their wrong. There all just power hungry SOBs. Besides why should they care they know we can't fight them so they just do as they please. I wonder what the definition of tyranny is.......
 
If you agree to fly into space on the shuttle and drill a hole in an asteroid so it can be blown up before it hits earth, you can get the government to stop making you pay taxes. I know it's true because I saw it on TV. :rolleyes:

Actually, you don’t have to file a return unless you make a certain amount:

IRS TAX TIP 2006-02
You must file a tax return if your income is above a certain level. The amount varies depending on filing status, age and the type of income you receive.
For example a married couple, under age 65, generally is not required to file until their joint income reaches $16,400. A single person making less than $8200 doesn’t have to file. However self-employed individuals generally must file a tax return if their net income from self employment exceeds $400.

But, you may lose some give-backs that are available. And, if you have filed in the past, and suddenly stop, they will likely want to take a look at you.
 
Gary, I didn't miss your point. You didn't make your point, as far as I can tell, until your last post. Previously, you said that everyone must file, even those with no income, or a crime had been committed.
Click to expand...

Dear Ausserordelech:

No, I am afraid you are putting words in my mouth. I never said a crime would have been committed if they did not file. What I said was, not filing after having filed for such a long period, could spur an audit. And if they do determine they want to audit, they can and do have the authority to:

Levy fines.


File liens to insure payment therof

Halt the sale of a property, even Homestead Property since their authority allows them to be in first lien position, regardless of an existing mortgage.

Send a S.W.A.T. team from a county sheriff's department to break down your door and throw you on the floor, if they want to serve a warrant for any reason.

And generally, cost you bunches of money.

So I suggested the individual seek advice from a tax attorney or cpa about the issue, rather than listen to folks on an Internet web site advice on something as important and serious as Internal Revenue Service rules and regulations.

However, I never said a crime had been committed. I never said anything at all about a crime. Perhaps you were reading the post of another member.

I did say however, they can (and they often do) make one's life hell if one is among the unfortunate six million citizens selected for an audit and the examiner happens to decide they don't like you, or wants to get on a power trip.

I don't know if you watched the Senate hearings a few years ago with IRS Employees (coming forth under anonymity with their faces shielded) testifying about the terror and financial ruin some of their fellow employees purposefully visited upon victims unfortunate enough to have angered them, but it wasn't real pretty.

You don't have to commit a crime to get audited. And indeed the law may very well state an exempt person doesn't have to file, however, since the audit process (according to the IRS employees testifying) can be somewhat ugly if they don't like you, I thought it would be a wise idea to check with a CPA or Tax Lawyer to be certain.

Hopefully this clears up any misconceptions that I was suggesting he (or anyone else who didn't file a return) committed a crime. I was only suggesting they file some type of statement or return claiming the exemption from it, in order to report that years lack of income to statistically avoid being audited.
 
If no income is earned or unearned, then no tax return is required. If it should trigger an audit, for whatever strange reason (despite no reports of income to them) then there's noting to collect. Actually, the IRS does not want the extra paperwork.............Below from the IRS website......ck


Should You File a Tax Return?


IRS TAX TIP 2006-02

You must file a tax return if your income is above a certain level. The amount varies depending on filing status, age and the type of income you receive.

For example a married couple, under age 65, generally is not required to file until their joint income reaches $16,400. However self-employed individuals generally must file a tax return if their net income from self employment exceeds $400.

Check the “individuals” section of the IRS Web site at IRS.gov or consult the instructions for form 1040, 1040A or 1040EZ for specific details that may affect your need to file a tax return with IRS this year.

Even if you do not have to file, you should file to get money back if Federal Income Tax was withheld from your pay, or you qualify for any of these credits:

• Earned Income Tax Credit. The Earned Income Tax Credit is a federal income tax credit for eligible low-income workers. The credit reduces the amount of tax an individual owes, and may be returned in the form of a refund.

• Additional Child Tax Credit. This credit may be available to you if you have three or more qualifying children or if you have earned income that exceeds $11,000. The Additional Child Tax Credit may give you a refund even if you do not owe any tax.

• Health Coverage Tax Credit. Limited to certain individuals who are receiving certain Trade Adjustment Assistance, Alternative Trade Adjustment Assistance, or pension benefit payments from the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation.
 
Hm. First post. :)

Hiya and stuff. I've lurked for a couple of years.

Anyway, irrespective of all the myriad arguments available - and there really are a TON - I've distilled two major things I wonder:

1. What, if any law actually requires one to file? That would probably imply voluntary liability to criminal charges, audits, et al. Now, I notice that it *should* be covered by the IRS statutes.

So:

2. What gives the IRS such authority? (This is the one I figure puts the hammer to steel and ruins just about every argument against income taxation.) Presumably the conflict here would be that a statute says the IRS can do this and that, but the Constitution says differently.

Big, confusing mess. No small wonder that people tend to shy away from poking this tiger with a sharp stick.
 
Presumably the conflict here would be that a statute says the IRS can do this and that, but the Constitution says differently.
Click to expand...

No, it does not. I can't believe all the folks that try to hide behind the Constitution, proclaiming somehow that if something isn't in the Constitution, apparently in a direct stipulation, then it isn't real. WTF?

First, Congress does make and pass laws (usually with Presidential help) that include aspects not specifically mentioned in the Constitution. Maybe you missed this in your civics class somewhere along the way. See Article 1, Section 7.

Second, the Constitution specifically does allow for taxation!

AMENDMENT XVI
Passed by Congress July 2, 1909. Ratified February 3, 1913.

Note: Article I, section 9, of the Constitution was modified by amendment 16.

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
Click to expand...

Congress does this through the IRS.
 
Then, pray tell, how DID all of those people in the linked film manage to have the cases filed against them by the IRS thrown out? ;)
 
You know an easier way is to just do business with cash. If the IRS does come after you they can't prove it. The burden to prove income is on them not you. The IRS comes after you and says you didn't file taxes. Just tell them ou didn't make anything. With no receipts, canceled checks or banks records most any judge would dismiss the case for lack of evidence. Though it would be wise to keep some income recipets. So long as it does not exceed more then a couple hundred bucks. When I seek employment under someone else I am forced to report. But private business I deal in cash mainly because it is easier. Most of the time you can't trust a check anyway. (I only take checks from people I know). And it does not require a trip to the bank, who as I have found out will not cash a check unless you have an account. And I have no bank account. I'm lucky enough to be able to have my mother cash them for me at her bank. Unfortunately under this methods it takles a week before I get the cash.
 
The code says explicitly that you must file a return if you have any income and are not exempt from filing
Click to expand...

can you quote that code section?

before ANY law can be valid, there are a few required items. one is an enabling clause usually like in your state statutes, "We the people of such and such state"...

there also must be a glossary that defines (in the proper grammatical method) all the terms in that law, (b) “Firearm” means a weapon from which a dangerous projectile may be propelled by an explosive, or by gas or air. Firearm does not include a smooth bore rifle or handgun designed and manufactured exclusively for propelling by a spring, or by gas or air, BB’s not exceeding .177 caliber. (from Michigan compliled annotated laws)

now if you look in the IRS CODE BOOK, it will define GROSS Income. "...gross income means all income from whatever source derived, (including but not limited to) the following items: (it then lists 15 sources)(section 61)

so you now know what gross income is, whats income? it ISNT the sources, its something you get from the sources. here's a better example. "...gross snuckledopp means all snuckledopp from whatever source derived, (including but not limited to) the following items: have i defined what snuckledopp is?

so how do YOU know if you have income or not? the SCOTUS ruled that the 16th amendment did NOT confer any new taxing powers upon the Congress. (Brushaber v. Union Pacific Railroad). it also ruled that, any direct tax that is not apportioned is unlawful (Commissioner v. Obear-Nester). and it ruled that congress has taxed income, not compensation (Connor v. U.S.). income is the GAIN or INCREASE arising from corporate activities (Doyle v. Mitchell Bros. Co.). the general term income is not defined in the IRC (U.S. v. Ballard).

another question to ask yourself is "am i an employee?" well lets see, "the term 'employee' includes an officer, employee or elected official of the United States, a State...or the District of Columbia, or any agency or instrumentality of any one or more of the foregoing. the term 'employee' also includes an officer of a corporation." this is IRC 3401(c). are YOU an employee?

the term United States when used in a geographical sense includes only the States and the District of Columbia (IRC 7701(a)(9))

the term State shall be construed to include the District of Columbia, where such construction is necessary to carry out provisions of this title. (IRC 7701(a)(10))

now in legal and and regular dictionaries, 'construed' means "built up of", and 'includes' means "to confine within". in other words if something is not included, it is excluded.

so it would appear that the great majority of us here do not have income.

and lastly (its getting late) anywhere in the IRC that says "so and so SHALL file a return" remember that "shall" means 'may'. dont believe me? "the word 'shall' in a statute may be construed to mean 'may', particularly in order to avoid a constitutional doubt." (Fort Howard Paper Co. v. Fox River Heights Sanitary Dist,. 26 NW 2nd 661) and "as against the government the word "shall" when used in statutes is to be construed as "may", unless a contrary intention is manifest." (Cairo and Fulton R.R. Co. v Hect)( a SCOTUS ruling) other courts have ruled the same way. "if necessary, to avoid unconstitutionality of a statute, "shall" will be deemed equivalent to "may"." also the Circuit Court of Appeals ruled the same way in Ballou v. Kemp 92 F2d 556.

now, can anyone point specifically to the law that says "YOU, Ltdave, have to pay a tax on your income" where it actually applies to me a private person?

david
 
Gary, thanks for the disclaimer in your most recent post to me. However, how about reading over this quote from your first "advice" in this thread?

"You have to file every year, even if you make zero income. Make sure you file one, or if you failed to, make certain to get it handled by a tax attorney that could do it and settle the fine for not filing.

The reason is, they can put a lien on your homesteaded property, and once that is done you have a problem to do such things as refinance, sell the home, etc."

How exactly would there be a fine, per your first paragraph, if no crime were committed? Upon what would they base their lien on "homesteaded property?" In "recording states", an IRS lien does not stand before a properly recorded mortgage. The mortgage would have to be paid prior to the taxes. Do you understand under which circumstances crimes are committed? Also, I don't believe that the IRS can have a local SWAT team kick down your door to serve a warrant. The IRS has their own Criminal Division.

I agree that advice should be sought from a competent attorney or C.P.A. I do not agree that an average American who can read and understand the English language can't read the simple instructions under "who must file" in their instructions and determine whether they should file or not.
 
Let me irreterate...

Let's look at the Constitution.

Amendment XVI -

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


This Amendment was proposed 7/12/1909 and ratified 2/3/1913.


John
Click to expand...

I HAVE no income. I've saved up a bunch of money, and that's what I'm living on. I haven't touched the IRAs, 403B, invested pension plans, so why should I file a tax return? If the IRS wants to waste their time (and someone else's tax dollars), they can go ahead.
 
The problem is this: If everyone that posted on this thread were to stop paying taxes, so what? The feds would have their way with us. If eveyone on this site stoped paying taxes same problem for us. but now if everyone on the internet stopped paying taxes, then it would be the governments problem and that would be the end of the CURRENT IRS tax schemes:D
 
I HAVE no income. I've saved up a bunch of money, and that's what I'm living on. I haven't touched the IRAs, 403B, invested pension plans, so why should I file a tax return? If the IRS wants to waste their time (and someone else's tax dollars), they can go ahead.
Click to expand...

skeeter1, right, but the section you cited from the Constitution says nothing about filing. I posted that section as proof to those who thought otherwise that there is indeed a section of the Constitution that says that the federal government can levy taxes, income taxes. Unfortunately, that amendment says nothing about filing a return regardless of whether you had income or not. That aspect was covered by clayking who cited the tax code.

You must have an amazing investment strategy. You are living on cash savings for which you are receiving no interest, hence no income, and have IRAs and 403Bs bringing in no money either.
 
"can anyone point specifically to the law that says "YOU, Ltdave, have to pay a tax on your income" where it actually applies to me a private person?"

Anything in here look useful to you?
_________________________________

Some terms are essential in understanding income tax law. "Gross income" can be generaly defined as "all income from whatever source derived;" a more complete definition is found in 26 U.S.C. § 61. Other important definitions like "taxable income" and "adjusted gross income" can also be found in Chapter I of Title 26. These terms are not fixed nor should anyone be confident in understanding their true meaning after a cursory reading because their imputed definitions change with time. The Supreme Court, through case law, demonstrates the changing meaning of taxable income.

Individuals are not the only ones required to file income tax returns. Corporations do as well. While they are subject to may of the same rules as are individual taxpayers, they are also covered by an intricate body of rules addressed to the peculiar problems of corporations.
menu sources
federal material
U.S. Constitution
Article I, Section 8 - Congressional Power to Tax (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section8)
16th Amendment (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.amendmentxvi.html)
CRS Annotated Constitution:
Fourteenth Amendment: Individual Income Tax (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/s...e tax&url=/anncon/html/amdt14cfrag5_user.html)
Sixteenth Amendment: Income Tax (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/s...=income tax&url=/anncon/html/amdt16_user.html)
Federal Statutes
U.S. Code: 26 U.S.C. - Internal Revenue Code
Federal Regulations
Title 26 C.F.R. (http://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/26cfr.htm)
Federal Judicial Decisions
U.S. Supreme Court:
Historic Tax Decisions (http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/index.html?query=(income+and+tax)+or+irs&scope=onlyhistoric)
Recent Income Tax Decisions (http://supct.law.cornell.edu/supct/search/index.html?query=(income+and+tax)+or+irs)
U.S. Circuit Courts of Appeals: Recent Income Tax Cases (http://www.law.cornell.edu/usca/search/index.html?query=(income+and+tax)+or+irs)
U.S. Tax Court: Decisions (http://www.ustaxcourt.gov/UstcInOp/asp/HistoricOptions.asp) (Jan. 1999 - present)
State Material
State Statutes
Uniform Division of Income for Tax Purposes Act (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uniform/vol7.html#inctx)(adopted in Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Mexico, North Dakota, Oregon, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas, Utah, and Washington)
State Statutes Dealing with Taxation (http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/state_statutes.html#tax)
State Judicial Decisions
N.Y. Court of Appeals:
Recent Income Tax Cases (http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/search/index.html?query=income+and+tax+not+liibulletin)
Commentary from liibulletin-ny (http://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/search/index.html?query=liibulletin+and+income+and+tax)
Appellate Decisions from Other States (http://www.law.cornell.edu/states/)
Other References
Key Internet Sources
Federal Agency: Internal Revenue Service (http://www.irs.gov/)
Income Tax Websites (http://www.taxsites.com/)
"The Tax Prophet" (http://www.taxprophet.com/)
Tax and Related Links (Harter,Secrest & Emery) (http://www.hsetax.com/)
Federation of Tax Administrators (http://www.taxadmin.org/)
Useful Offnet (or Subscription - $) Sources
Good Starting Point in Print: Posin and Tobin's Principles of Federal Income Taxation Law, The Concise Hornbook Series, 7th ed. (http://west.thomson.com/product/14552113/product.asp), West Group (2005)
Other Topics
Category:Taxation
Retrieved from "http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/index.php/Income_tax"
 
And about these two statements sandwiching my post...

"Let me irreterate..."

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Let's look at the Constitution.

Amendment XVI -

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


This Amendment was proposed 7/12/1909 and ratified 2/3/1913.


John
_______

"I HAVE no income."
_______________________

What does the fact that you have no income have to do with Amendment XVI pray tell? It says that Congress has the power to collect taxes on income. You don't have any income - great. Me, I'd take the money out of the mattress and put it to work for me. But that's just me. If you're happy letting inflation eat away at your horde of cash have at it.

John
 
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