Do you have to fight?
- Thread starter Bullet94
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TylerD45ACP
New member
No kidding now they are trying to put a TAX! on guns. Also they were trying to ban ALL 'magazine' fed weapons. That leaves pretty much nothing for us shooters to enjoy. I am really sick of antigunners, most have never even shot a firearm. Shoot what you want to ban before you make judgement on it. Too many rules and regulations coming into play.
Here's another take on the original question about whether you have to fight:
Sometimes you have to fight because you can't run away. Sometimes you have to fight because it is the honorable thing to do, even if you have no chance of winning. It makes no difference what you're armed with or what they are are armed with. And you may not have much time to ponder the situation either.
Sometimes you have to fight because you can't run away. Sometimes you have to fight because it is the honorable thing to do, even if you have no chance of winning. It makes no difference what you're armed with or what they are are armed with. And you may not have much time to ponder the situation either.
Edward429451
Moderator
I think disparity of force is for the schoolground. I can't see if the BG has a black belt in Kung Fu or whatever and he can't see my bad back even if we are the same size. Handguns were made to stop fights and equal the playing field. No you do not have to fight fair or climb some sort of escalation of force ladder. That's police stuff.
The smaller the BG is the more inclined I would be to think he has something up his sleeve or he would not approach someone as big as him.
The smaller the BG is the more inclined I would be to think he has something up his sleeve or he would not approach someone as big as him.
TylerD45ACP
New member
I know when its time to fight when my life or the life of loved ones is in immediate danger. I am then going to take action.
paladin-34
New member
When my son was 12 (or so) we had just parked in the driveway. I walked around to the trunk to bring the guns in the house, we had just been out to the range. I popped the trunk and took my carry gun out to empty it before carrying the guns in for cleaning when one of my wife’s friends pulled up, I turned to say high, dropping my 380 auto into my pocket to keep it out of site as I waved. The cars on the street were parked tight so traffic could only go one way at a time, so she drove up to the next door neighbors drive to turn around. She did not know the reason why no one was parked in front of that house. But she found it out soon enough.
She pulled into the neighbors drive to let the cars behind her through. When she realized the neighbor was running towards her car with a tire iron pointed at her. I saw the fear in her face, it was like someone ran a nail right through the center of my body from head to toe, then I saw him. She put the car in reverse and gunned it, not looking for traffic and just missed the car that had been behind her as she turned into the driveway. I started yelling: “Your gona get someone killed!” over and over as he chased her into the street.She somehow got the car into the street without hitting something or be getting hit by another car. Only to find him pulling back to take a swing at the passenger side wind shield of her vehicle.
By now my wife, my son, and his wife were all yelling with me. She wasted no time putting the car in drive and got out of there. He did not swing at her car, instead turned looking at me.
He took off directly for me, swinging the tire iron. I continued to yell: “what are you doing” time slowed way down! I realized my son was between us so I pushed him behind me. Then realized the 380 was in my right pocket. I reached in and found it. clicked the safety off. pulled it out of my pocket and held it on the side of my leg away from him. He continued towards me, I herd nothing, I only saw him. As I stood there yelling as he closed on me. All I could think of was did I click safety on or off.
During the eon it took for him to reach me, winding up and lung at me all I could think of was is the safety on or off. He finally reached me leapt into the air to get max inertia on the tire iron as it looped behind his back and over his head and started coming down on me. I put my left hand up to block the tire iron then pulled the right hand up to shoot. My plan was to shoot then hit the ground hoping to get out of the arc of his swing.
I don’t know what it was that brought him back to reality, his face went blank, he stopped almost nose to nose with me, the tire iron came down very slowly I slipped the gun back in my pocket. I rose and we were face to face, standing there, he would not look at me. I could not take my eyes off him. As he started to back away I realized everyone was yelling, his wife was screaming his name, my son: “shoot him”. My wife had gone down the street to the friend to check on her, out of her car and shaking.
The police officer who responded told me that had he been in my shoes the neighbor would be dead. I said NY requires that I retreat. He said you moved your son out of the way. Then continued 12 out of 23people just like you have to find you were not justified, then 12 people have to feel the same. Sounds like much better odds than you had.
What did I learn from this? First and foremost, I won’t carry a gun with a manual safety. my entire outlook on these encounters changed after that. Its not about what we say we will do safely sitting behind a pc with no real threat to speak of. Its about how much rope are you willing to let out before you take a life changing action. We honestly do not know where we will fall there till its to late. And most importantly how can LEO face this every day? I just can not fathom that.
Joe
She pulled into the neighbors drive to let the cars behind her through. When she realized the neighbor was running towards her car with a tire iron pointed at her. I saw the fear in her face, it was like someone ran a nail right through the center of my body from head to toe, then I saw him. She put the car in reverse and gunned it, not looking for traffic and just missed the car that had been behind her as she turned into the driveway. I started yelling: “Your gona get someone killed!” over and over as he chased her into the street.She somehow got the car into the street without hitting something or be getting hit by another car. Only to find him pulling back to take a swing at the passenger side wind shield of her vehicle.
By now my wife, my son, and his wife were all yelling with me. She wasted no time putting the car in drive and got out of there. He did not swing at her car, instead turned looking at me.
He took off directly for me, swinging the tire iron. I continued to yell: “what are you doing” time slowed way down! I realized my son was between us so I pushed him behind me. Then realized the 380 was in my right pocket. I reached in and found it. clicked the safety off. pulled it out of my pocket and held it on the side of my leg away from him. He continued towards me, I herd nothing, I only saw him. As I stood there yelling as he closed on me. All I could think of was did I click safety on or off.
During the eon it took for him to reach me, winding up and lung at me all I could think of was is the safety on or off. He finally reached me leapt into the air to get max inertia on the tire iron as it looped behind his back and over his head and started coming down on me. I put my left hand up to block the tire iron then pulled the right hand up to shoot. My plan was to shoot then hit the ground hoping to get out of the arc of his swing.
I don’t know what it was that brought him back to reality, his face went blank, he stopped almost nose to nose with me, the tire iron came down very slowly I slipped the gun back in my pocket. I rose and we were face to face, standing there, he would not look at me. I could not take my eyes off him. As he started to back away I realized everyone was yelling, his wife was screaming his name, my son: “shoot him”. My wife had gone down the street to the friend to check on her, out of her car and shaking.
The police officer who responded told me that had he been in my shoes the neighbor would be dead. I said NY requires that I retreat. He said you moved your son out of the way. Then continued 12 out of 23people just like you have to find you were not justified, then 12 people have to feel the same. Sounds like much better odds than you had.
What did I learn from this? First and foremost, I won’t carry a gun with a manual safety. my entire outlook on these encounters changed after that. Its not about what we say we will do safely sitting behind a pc with no real threat to speak of. Its about how much rope are you willing to let out before you take a life changing action. We honestly do not know where we will fall there till its to late. And most importantly how can LEO face this every day? I just can not fathom that.
Joe
TylerD45ACP
New member
Wow intense. Im glad you and your family are ok. Sounds like he saw the 380 and had a quick mind change. That must have been crazy thinking you might be shooting someone. What kind of pistol was it by the way. I like 1911 it has a saftey but I know its off because it switches down.
paladin-34
New member
Only my son saw the gun. It was a bryco model 380. Safety works very easy, up is safe down is fire. The problem is, in this kind of situation my focus was on the guy running at me exclusively. I knew I moved the safety but could not discern which way I was moving the safety, only that I was moving it. This lead me to look for a gun that better suited what I learned.
I initially looked at glock but could not carry cocked and locked. I now understand why glocks fit LEO uses so well, but that would not do for me. I finally settled on sig because it can be carried hammer down with an auto safety.
Joe
I initially looked at glock but could not carry cocked and locked. I now understand why glocks fit LEO uses so well, but that would not do for me. I finally settled on sig because it can be carried hammer down with an auto safety.
Joe
TylerD45ACP
New member
Thats intellegent to learn from that. I could see how you could get distracted and be thinking about the guy not the saftey. I still prefer the 1911 but its an interesting point. Sometimes I like DA/SA Smith and Wessons for that reason, too pipe one and keep the saftey off. This allows for a holstered gun with a heavy 1st pull. I cant help but have my 1911 45 with me mostly though 
.
.paladin-34
New member
I understand, I have a 1911A1 but it’s weight is almost twice the sig. that’s like putting seven rolls of quarters in your pocket vs 4. Its also the same type of safety action I had on the broyco, safe up, shot down.
My son is a Aircraft rescue and fire first responder, now. He always tells me that in a situation we loose fine motor skills and that is what I experienced. He says police are trained to rack the slide by grasping it between their fingers, all of them, and palm. because in emergency they will not be able to grab it between their thumb and index finger. Gross motor vs fine motor. he has a list of fine motor skills he is always holding over my head. i hate racking the slide that way, its so clunky. flicking a safety off is also fine motor. i have a Ruger P-89 for Bullseye every time i bring it out he finds time to remind me that i should practice with gross motor only. that means holding it in the right hand, folding my left over it like im going to rack the slide and pulling it up or down with all fingers. but he's right.
Joe
My son is a Aircraft rescue and fire first responder, now. He always tells me that in a situation we loose fine motor skills and that is what I experienced. He says police are trained to rack the slide by grasping it between their fingers, all of them, and palm. because in emergency they will not be able to grab it between their thumb and index finger. Gross motor vs fine motor. he has a list of fine motor skills he is always holding over my head. i hate racking the slide that way, its so clunky. flicking a safety off is also fine motor. i have a Ruger P-89 for Bullseye every time i bring it out he finds time to remind me that i should practice with gross motor only. that means holding it in the right hand, folding my left over it like im going to rack the slide and pulling it up or down with all fingers. but he's right.
Joe
TylerD45ACP
New member
Absolutley you loose fine motor skills when your adrenaline is pumping. I still advocate my 1911 but agree that your point it a vaild one. I believe there is a certain point when your adrenaline kicks in you loose fine motor control until because you are in 'Fight or Flight' but you regain control once your heart starts beating over a certain amount I forget what it is. Very interest post and idea though.
Been there, done this! I was approached by a man 20 years younger than
me, in a bar parking lot. We had had some words between us in the previous
couple of days. He had threatened to kill me if he ever saw me again ( this
was done by phone, in this case, my cell phone and he was stupid enough to
leave a message on my phone detailing what he was gonna do to me! ) and
when I saw him, I discreetly pulled my gun from my front pocket and held it at
my right side. He had seen the gun, apparently, and asked me if I was gonna
shoot him. I told him if he struck me, I was. He hit me in the left jaw with his
right hand and I shot him. I went to jail, of course. You can count on that,
regardless of what witnesses say, etc. But, I was eventually cleared of all
charges. So, I say, do what you gotta do, because sometimes you dont have
the time to go over all the ramifications in your mind before you are beat to a
pulp, or killed!
me, in a bar parking lot. We had had some words between us in the previous
couple of days. He had threatened to kill me if he ever saw me again ( this
was done by phone, in this case, my cell phone and he was stupid enough to
leave a message on my phone detailing what he was gonna do to me! ) and
when I saw him, I discreetly pulled my gun from my front pocket and held it at
my right side. He had seen the gun, apparently, and asked me if I was gonna
shoot him. I told him if he struck me, I was. He hit me in the left jaw with his
right hand and I shot him. I went to jail, of course. You can count on that,
regardless of what witnesses say, etc. But, I was eventually cleared of all
charges. So, I say, do what you gotta do, because sometimes you dont have
the time to go over all the ramifications in your mind before you are beat to a
pulp, or killed!
TylerD45ACP
New member
Absolutley. I would have done the same thing. I would have told him to stop where he was and if you attack me I am going to fire upon you. If he attacked I would fire. You are right, I rather be judged by 12 any day than carried by 6.
--Interesting story when I was 16-17 I was walking down the sidwalk near where I live. To my left were cars driving in the same direction I was walking. Then I turned as I heard a pop and glass shatter. I crouched behind a firehydrant because it was closest thing. My other two friends just stood up and watched. Anyway, a black man was firing a 22-32 caliber at the car behind him (couldn't have been any bigger) and I saw the rounds popping through the windshield of the guys car and some seemed to be deflecting. The passenger of the following car hangs out his window and yells "shoot at me with that piece of sH&^", then opens fire with what looked like a model 36snub 38spl., hitting a tail light, thats all I saw. I was no more than 15ft. from the cars and had a clear view of the whole shootout, maybe 15 rounds total discharged. They drove out of sight at lightning speed and were apprehended shortly after. Luckily no one was hit there were alot of innocents around including children. But man it was INTENSE! I later found out it was some stupid gang stuff.
--Interesting story when I was 16-17 I was walking down the sidwalk near where I live. To my left were cars driving in the same direction I was walking. Then I turned as I heard a pop and glass shatter. I crouched behind a firehydrant because it was closest thing. My other two friends just stood up and watched. Anyway, a black man was firing a 22-32 caliber at the car behind him (couldn't have been any bigger) and I saw the rounds popping through the windshield of the guys car and some seemed to be deflecting. The passenger of the following car hangs out his window and yells "shoot at me with that piece of sH&^", then opens fire with what looked like a model 36snub 38spl., hitting a tail light, thats all I saw. I was no more than 15ft. from the cars and had a clear view of the whole shootout, maybe 15 rounds total discharged. They drove out of sight at lightning speed and were apprehended shortly after. Luckily no one was hit there were alot of innocents around including children. But man it was INTENSE! I later found out it was some stupid gang stuff.
Although the factor of being responsible for securing your weapon - preventing anyone from taking control of it - goes with the issued discussion, and it is considered in this thread, imho, the enormous importance of that factor is not adequately subjected.
For a variety of real reasons, a lot of people are simply unable to fight, or run.
When that is the case, the danger of an aggressor disarming and murdering the CCW with his or her own weapon - and/or murdering or otherwise endangering others with it - is an immediate and paramount, very realistic concern.
The commonplace potential for the described scenario and circumstance accompanies all law abiding - especially senior and otherwise handicapped - adult citizens who elect to defend themselves from predatory, aggressive BG's.
Again, the tremendous responsibility of the CCW is to keep their weapon secure in all respects, certainly preventing any occasion of it being taken from them: that very real danger must be guarded with a preventative resolution to use the weapon on an unarmed mugger, when the latter aggressively deprives the CCW from employing any other preventative recourse.
Does not the vigilant qualification: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident' , find a justifiably emphatic place in this proposed dilemma?
For a variety of real reasons, a lot of people are simply unable to fight, or run.
When that is the case, the danger of an aggressor disarming and murdering the CCW with his or her own weapon - and/or murdering or otherwise endangering others with it - is an immediate and paramount, very realistic concern.
The commonplace potential for the described scenario and circumstance accompanies all law abiding - especially senior and otherwise handicapped - adult citizens who elect to defend themselves from predatory, aggressive BG's.
Again, the tremendous responsibility of the CCW is to keep their weapon secure in all respects, certainly preventing any occasion of it being taken from them: that very real danger must be guarded with a preventative resolution to use the weapon on an unarmed mugger, when the latter aggressively deprives the CCW from employing any other preventative recourse.
Does not the vigilant qualification: 'We hold these truths to be self-evident' , find a justifiably emphatic place in this proposed dilemma?
TylerD45ACP
New member
Thats a very good point about weapon retention Molly. You make some very valid points their like ones weapon being used against them. The handicapped and elderly have a disadvantage as you said as well in not being able to fight. I remember watching a man beat a 90yr old man without mercy to steal his car. He kept beating and beating him when he already could have taken the car. The video was very sad and difficult to watch and I felt horribly for the 90yr old man. He cant really defend himself or fight back so what does he do? He needs a means of defense but it could also be used against him. The there was a case of a 71yr old man who a robber 'thought' would be a easy victim but was mistaken. The 71yr. old Ex-Marine beat the BG up and he was restrained until authorities could arrive. Good post, shows how responsible you really need to be.
DiscoRacing
New member
I worry more about whether or not my guns Im carrying will be big enough...
...Sorry...Little humor there....
...those who know me will laugh.
...Sorry...Little humor there....
...those who know me will laugh.
TylerD45ACP
New member
Yep they will. The problem is you will be disarmed at 90yrs old because you couldnt lift your (S&W 500) fast enough. Luckily you pulled your BUG (Desert Eagle .44) and thwarted the attack. Good thing you didnt have to use your BackupBUG (Ruger .357)
. You still have the custom box of Goodies lol, can I see that pic again.
. You still have the custom box of Goodies lol, can I see that pic again.