do you ccw fmj?

Massad Ayoob just wrote an article in Combat Handguns. He said in the article in New Jersey you can keep hollow point ammo in the house but for CCW carry you cannot! Thus in NJ it's either soft point or FMJ for CCW.

If I was to go that route, it would either be with .40 S&W truncated cone FMJ or .45 ACP truncated cone. And even then I'd try, if I could, to get some kind of safe backstop for the BG I had to shoot!
 
I have no problem carrying hard ball in a 45. In lesser calibers I question it more and more as the caliber gets smaller. A 45 230 grain FMJ has done many a bad guy in quickly.
 
Ayoob didnt tell you one thing about concealed carry in New Jersey.

In order to get a permit, you must apply at the local police department. The local police chief needs to recommend you for the CCW. Whether you get the recommendation or not, then the next step is in front of a judge with the local prosecutor playing devil's advocate against you. The judge will then determine if you get the permit. You must have documented evidence of an urgent need.

In the last 50 or so years, maybe 20-30 CCW permits have ever been issued to private citizens. Most people who try to get a CCW permit get rejected. Actually, if you go into any NJ police department they will usually stonewall, run you around or talk you out of it. The chief of any department will almost never recommend you for the permit.

Now lets say you are able to secure the ccw permit somehow. The judge will usually slap some type of restriction on it such as hours to carry, geography, etc.

In NJ, just to buy a pistol you need to get the local police department's blessing. This is much easier then getting the CCW permit. The process is that you fill out a long application. The application then goes to the department's detectives. The detectives then go out to your home, question your neighbors, the people at your work and everyone living in your home. If anyone says anything bad about you or the detectives are the slightest bit uncomfortable, you dont get a permit to buy. The process to get a permit to buy usually takes 3-6 months. This all depends upon the police department you apply at. Some will be much easier then others. If the police department denies you the permit, then you can always go in front of the friendly superior court judge. Again, some departments might claim to lose the paperwork which is a standard practice. You call up 3 months later to find they lost the paperwork. Then you fill out new paperwork and wait another 3-6 months.

Owning a weapon in NJ is hard.

Obtaining a CCW is almost impossible.
 
Dont forget this paragraph which basically states that in New Jersey you need to give up your wallet to anyone who asks. So even if you have a CCW permit, then you still cant use deadly force in most situations...

(2)The use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor reasonably believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death or serious bodily harm; nor is it justifiable if:

(a)The actor, with the purpose of causing death or serious bodily harm, provoked the use of force against himself in the same encounter; or

(b)The actor knows that he can avoid the necessity of using such force with complete safety by retreating or by surrendering possession of a thing to a person asserting a claim of right thereto or by complying with a demand that he abstain from any action which he has no duty to take, except that:

(i)The actor is not obliged to retreat from his dwelling, unless he was the initial aggressor; and

(ii)A public officer justified in using force in the performance of his duties or a person justified in using force in his assistance or a person justified in using force in making an arrest or preventing an escape is not obliged to desist from efforts to perform such duty, effect such arrest or prevent such escape because of resistance or threatened resistance by or on behalf of the person against whom such action is directed.
 
Dont forget this paragraph which basically states that in New Jersey you need to give up your wallet to anyone who asks. So even if you have a CCW permit, then you still cant use deadly force in most situations...
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Thats not what it says. Read it again. And have you read the case law?

WildhmmmmAlaska TM
 
Dont need to read it. All I know is that its hard to buy a pistol in NJ, impossible to get a CCW and if you let a round fly from that pistol then you better hire the OJ Simpson defense team.
 
I am a JHP kind of guy, but I have considered alternating rounds in my carry guns with FMJ.

I do not ever think I will need added penetration, but any of us that have had the pleasure of shooting up old cars can really see why FMJ could be attractive if you needed that extra penetration. :)
 
Dont need to read it. All I know is that its hard to buy a pistol in NJ, impossible to get a CCW and if you let a round fly from that pistol then you better hire the OJ Simpson defense team.
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I see. Well don't let reality get in the way of your beliefs then.:cool:

WildicarryfmjinsomegunsAlaska TM
 
Thanks to youtube and a bunch of bored guys with lots of time on their hands, we can see first hand the results of fmj and hollow point.

Notice how the FMJ goes right through the jug and doesn't seem to knock the jug over. Goes in one end and out the other without upsetting it. The jug could probably be reused with some tape on the holes. Your body is mostly water so can you imagine that fmj going right through the victim and then hitting an innocent?

The hollow-point knocks over the jug and tears it apart making it unusable.

Clearly, the hollow-point is what you want to carry because it indeed has more knock-down power and will upset the tissue a lot more. Its much safer as the bullet has less of a chance of ripping through the victim and killing innocents.

Also, if a man is charging at you. The FMJ isnt going to stop him as well as the hollowpoint. 2-3 FMJs is like 2-3 stabs with an icepick. It will hurt like hell, but it may not stop a charging angry man. Where as 2-3 hollowpoints is going to do a lot more damage and most likely stop that angry man.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BB2qNYC8AJE
 
Also, if a man is charging at you. The FMJ isnt going to stop him as well as the hollowpoint.
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really? Charge at me then. Let me load up my Colt Defender with ball:D

WildiforoneseeanyonepointingagunatmeimnotgoingtocarewhathesgotinitAlaska TM
 
Brit FMJ Sten gun Ammo.

British and Canadian Military 9mm, weighs in at 115-116g, and trots along at 1250FPS plus, out of a Glock 17. Only time I would carry it, third of three magazines.

It punches right through a torso of a big man, front to back, side to side.

You do not get by with a band aid solution most times.

If you feel you live in an area that is dangerous to your health whilst being unarmed. Move. A person who is not afraid of work can find a job.
 
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JohnH1963 said:
Clearly, the hollow-point is what you want to carry because it indeed has more knock-down power and will upset the tissue a lot more. Its much safer as the bullet has less of a chance of ripping through the victim and killing innocents
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I don't personally carry FMJ. If I just had to, I would not feel underarmed at all, but there are better options out there. That being said, shooting milk jugs and shooting people are two entirely different things. You stand a much greater risk of hitting an innocent bystander by missing your target entirely than you do by overpenetrating your target. I would much rather see someone carrying FMJ that they have actually trained with than buying one box of the latest, greatest JHP and carrying it having no idea how it performs in their weapon.
 
I would much rather see someone carrying FMJ that they have actually trained with than buying one box of the latest, greatest JHP and carrying it having no idea how it performs in their weapon.
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Amen. I've always felt I'd rather shoot 1000 rounds and keep 10 in the gun than shoot 10 for practice and keep 1000 rounds.

Skill is so much more important than bore size (within reason) or JHP .vs. FMJ or whatever.
 
The previous youtube video proves that fmj and hollowpoint have different characteristics when they strike objects. The FMJ goes right through the waterjugs, but leaves them intact where you can place tape over the holes and they will still hold water. The hollowpoints blow the jugs apart.

This youtube video is about the battle of Fallujah in which fmj was exclusively used. Look at the part about Sgt Kasal who withstood grenades and several rounds to the legs. He lost 60% of his blood, but still was able to live and fight.

Kasal is one example of a person who was determined to fight. If you come up against someone similiar to Kasal then you better be carrying hollowpoints. You want to blow your attacker apart versus going through them.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv-jzCxv23Y
 
JohnH1963 said:
If you come up against someone similiar to Kasal then you better be carrying hollowpoints. You want to blow your attacker apart versus going through them.
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Other than certain underpenetrating rounds (.32 comes to mind, as it's what my wife carries), JHP is superior in a defensive encounter to FMJ. No one is arguing that point with you. What JHP rounds do not do however, is turn your weapon into some magical death ray, despite what you've learned from the movies. I won't ask how many gunshot wounds you've actually seen, as the answer is obvious.
 
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If you plan on having to shoot into vehicles or barriers to kill than FMJ's will do that job. I once shot up a old pick up at my place. It was a 66 dodge ram 1/2 ton that had been in a roll over so it was more than toasted. I was shooting FMJ 45 auto at the bed of the truck which went through both sheets of meatal on one side and dented the other side or sometimes penitrated the first sheet on the other side of the box. I fired 357 sigs through it and they went through one side but never penetrated the other side of the box. 223 FMJ's cleared everything.

I carry Fedral HST 9mm
 
Generally prefer JHP.

When I carry .380, I use FMJ because I think penetration may be marginal with JHPs in this caliber. Also, my .380 functions better with FMJ.

That said, I only carry my .380 about 1-2% of the time.

Just my opinion, but I believe it is optimal to carry a caliber that has good penetration and good expansion with JHPs. If circumstances dictate I carry a caliber with marginal power, I prefer to ensure good penetration and give up on expansion.
 
Blow your attacker apart? Well then, I'd better buy a surplus 5" 38 cal turret from an Iowa class and tow it behind my Corolla.

We are seeing a stream of rather silly rhetoric from folks who need to read up a bit. There are professional level books on wounds. I don't recall seeing anyone blown up from a handgun round.
 
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