Do you aid a BG you just blasted?

S

sbryce

New member
My wife and I were pondering this question last night. I don't know which forum this belongs in, so I'll try it here. I also can't remember if this was addressed in the CCW class.

If you shoot and stop a BG, assuming he is not dead, do you offer aid?

Arguments for:
It is the humanitarian thing to do.
He is no longer a threat.
Shows LE or a jury that your intention was to stop, not to kill.

Arguments against:
He is not to be under-estimated.
Treat him as a threat as long as he is breathing.
Keep a safe distance.
Offering aid might show LE or a jury that he was not a real threat.

Is there a definitive answer? Or does it depend on the jurisdiction?
 
Since I don't know any first aid, I'll proceed to the nearest telephone and call the proper authorities. I always do my best to do what's legal. :)

Regards, Art
 
Well, if the guy / gal is out of the fight, I'm not going to hurt them any more. But, if they were dangerous enough to shoot in the first place, I'm not getting within an arms length. I'm with Art - I'd already have called in the professionals.
 
Jeff is spot-on; if you voluntarily get within 15 feet of an armed assailant under any circumstances, you deserve the gutting you may well receive. how do you know whether or not the BG has another gun or knife? how can you tell whether he is truly incapacitated or faking it?

convicts practice disarming techniques from "the position" while in prison (there are videotapes of this); you think they don't also practice from kneeling and prone?

the law cannot require you to take a life-threatening risk. job 1 is to win the fight. job 2 is to call the authorities. job 3 is to avoid getting killed while waiting for the authorities.

in any fight, distance is life. how much of your life are you willing to give up to a felon?
 
Yes - if you shoot the guy and his actions are now stopped and he is in desperate need of medical attention...
Yes I would render such aid. Even if I inflicted damage to a hostile person - I am still human and feel duty bound to do what I can.

Of course after my initial "failure to stop" drill... That fellow would be beyond all assistance from a mortal man.

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>"This one's still breathing; shoot him again."[/quote]
Dang, what movie is that from? I'm thinking a western?
***

Anyway, my take on this is that, unless you are ethically-bound to do so, then DO NOT!

When are we ethically-bound to assist someone who is wounded, even at possible risk to ourselves?

Um, first and easiest, if you're a trained medical professional. So you cops out there with your EMT certification... sorry! Twice as much work for you!

Next, those who maybe didn't need shooting. This is touchy, because it allows that you may be an idiot. Probably best to scratch this one, too, because if you're so badly off that you're capping the wrong guy, maybe you shouldn't be rendering aid.

Next... no one. You are not ethically [compelled] to assist anyone! I know that's a rotten attitude, and I help anyone that I see hurt in my daily life, but it's because I want to.

What if his airway's blocked? Are you going to do a trechiotomy with your Bic pen and your Spyderco for him? How's that look?
Are you in the right mind to do the right thing to the guy you just popped?

What's the liability? What's the risk to you? What's the reward?

I do NOT like the answers to these questions. Call the [other] pros. Cover him.

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Will you, too, be one who stands in the gap?

Matt
 
Like I was implying a little too subtly - if the goblin actually needs aid... Change your caliber or loading...

;)

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"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity." - Sigmund Freud
RAGE AGAINST THE MACHINE


[This message has been edited by George Hill (edited October 14, 1999).]
 
A member on TFL has this Signature :
Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice !
Hmmm....
2 x 95% OSS's might make rendering aid pointless. ;)


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"The Gun from Down Under !"
http://www.para1911fanclub.w3.to/
Alternate E-mail
HS2000@ausi.com
 
I'm with George.

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DOCSpanky
"Walk softly and carry a big stick, perferably one of the 12 guage variety!"
 
If safely feasible and IF inclined I would.

Perhaps we should start another thread, favorite bad guy recipes? ;)

Olazul
 
you had to shoot some one because they were a mortal threat, now you want to be humanitarian? Would the BG be so nice?

me thinks Shiva's wheel gets another spin on a BG in this situation

i for one don't like the idea of BGs with gudges

dZ
 
Ask 911 to send an ambulance. It'll look much better for you when the DA's looking at the case. Other than that, whether I'd render aid would depend on the situation.

I'd sure hate to shoot anyone. Hope it never comes up.
 
George, George, George!

Agreement. Ask this question. If he were to have wounded you, would he come to your aid???? Think not.

CMx2, proceed to stem... tap tap. End of story, end of another criminal, save all of us the criminal act of supporting this scum in jail for the next 10 years. Avoid the possibility of his return one day, and avoid the worry that would come to your family to know that a guy who would have killed you (had you not aimed and fired correctly) is out there, preying on others.

You do not have to report to your superior officer on this one. This is a "him or me" situation. The devil will deal with his soul accordingly.
 
It would depend... but, as a general rule, I would say no. I would prefer to be the only witness to the fracas.

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Remember: When you attempt to rationalize two inconsistent positions, you risk drowning as your own sewage backs up... Yankee Doodle
 
The votes are in and it is nearly unamimous. The BG is a BG even after he has been shot. Keep a safe distance and call for help. The EMT's can deal with what is left of him.
 
My vote is to let EMTs save the critter. Not hindering their work is the biggest concession I'd make.

If someone forced combat on another individual, they ought to reap the painful and permanent wages of such conduct. I also beleive that most hard-core BGs, rapists especially, will continue to prey on others till they get imprisoned or killed. Given the number of career rapists who come out of the slammer after a year or three, I would much rather they went to the morgue instead.

Which is why I would expect my girlfriend to fire until the threat has ceased (which is likely most of the magazine before the enemy even hits the floor) and heartily approve of any action that insures that initiator of violence and harm to others gets that harm back with much interest. That insures that the next victim(s) who may be less able to fight back never face this threat again.



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Cornered Rat
http://dd-b.net/RKBA RKBA posters
http://dd-b.net/olegv Portrait, nature photos
 
Now that you all got the macho "let him die" stuff out of the way.

You administer aid (after calling 911)to the level you you are capable of providing.
I'm in the military and required to know basic first aid. If I let him just lie there for 20 minutes and he die's, a lawyer can use that as evidence that I wanted him to die. Even if I called the ambulance.

At least if you bring out a towel and try to stop the bleeding (however feeble your attempt may be) you can testify that you tried to help.

If he is still a threat then leave him there.

You may not have an obligation to help the individual but a lawyer only has to demonstrate to the jury that you wanted to kill him, as opposed to just defend yourself or someone else.

What ever you can do to make yourself look like a super good guy, the better your chance in court.


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"It is easier to get out of jail then it is a morgue"
Live long and defend yourself!
John 3:16
 
Think I'd give the goblin New York CPR: point at him and yell "Get up before ya f***in' die!"

Lee, good points, but I'm too much a bastard to want to help someone who just tried to kill me. Skroom.

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"America needs additional gun laws like a giraffe needs snow tires."
--Rabbi Mermelstein, JPFO
 
Aside from the tactical and legal considerations of helping a downed bad guy, there's also this angle to consider: If he's been shot, he'll be bleeding, and the odds are uncomfortably high that his blood is going to be infected with HIV, hepatitis, or some other nasty pathogen. I think that cops and EMTs carry rubber gloves to deal with this risk, but I don't.

Are there any emergency medical workers out there who'd like to comment on this?
 
You are legally bound to go to his aid. If you allow him to die when you could have helped him, you can and probably will be charged with first degree murder, regardless of whether the original shooting is considered justified or not.

Under some circumstances, adequate aid can be calling for assistance, but if you do nothing or shoot him again, I can almost guarantee you will see prison bars from the wrong side.

"Shoot him again" may have applied in some old movie; it doesn't work that way in real life.

And if you are the sort who wants chapter and verse, or some juvenile who thinks you can live by the rules in the movies, grow up and get real!

Jim
 
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