Do Some of You Yearn for Armed Conflict??

G

Gary H

New member
I get the impression that some of you yearn for armed conflict. I seriously doubt that this will happen in my lifetime. I seriously and earnestly hope that it does not. If this attitude exists, I believe that it hurts the fight for constitutional government. I cannot conceive of armed conflict arising from this election. The weapons of the left are ones of stealth, applied in the schoolroom and on the evening news. Be careful; make sure that you are guarding against the true threat. It will not come by arms, but by stealth. Don't guard the front door while the threat enters from the rear. Trust me, the left always enters from the rear. Take that however you wish.

Do I have weapons that could be used to protect home and family..YES! Do I believe that our expressed right to own was designed to protect against the government. YES! God help us if it ever comes to that. Political action now!
 
Your right,

I prefer to call it like it is. They (the left), are like racoons (no offense to racoons), sneaking around a night, trying to get in your trashcans.

The left will not confront you head on. The anti-gun/constitution propoganda perpetuates itself through the media, education institutions and general couch potatoes who believe the spin. They appeal to the populace who are riding a fence or not in touch with the U.S. Constitution or those who died for it. An example: the million mom marchers. It is fairly easy to change minds of those who have a propensity towards fear. Who would'nt fear for their children, their neighbors, schools and places of business.

What is needed from us is to use freedom of speech and to get off our own couches and get involved. Be willing to become an activist, speak out, educate and do it in a form that is not hostile. Your not going to convert all, but we can influence many.

Will there be conflict? someday, maybe. Although it will most likely come from deciding which side to support in a possible upcoming conflict such as China/Taiwan, causing us to become involved in another Vietnam type war. Hopefully we are more kind to those returning GI's that we were the Vietnam Vets.

I've ran into a few people, (mostly those who think Gore is cool), that don't think we should care about Taiwan. Here is a reason we should. They make a large number of the electronic and pc boards we use in military weapons, computers, telecom equipment and test equipment.
 
Ronald Reagan won an election or two. The GOP took the house and senate back.

Of course, this wasn't happy gun time but elections can work. Before calls for this and that, try the electoral process. It is a cop out to post revolution when you know very well, you'll sit it out.

Do you get off your butt for elections or at least contribute what money you can?
 
Again I ask the question: "Why is it we are so quick to move from the ballot box to the bullet box? What ever happened to that time-honored American tradition of civil disobedience?"

In my view civil disobedience is a valid, legal, and effective to implement change. It is astounding how may of our laws depend upon voluntary compliance. What would happen to our tax laws for example if Americans simply refused to pay taxes? Try as we may to convince our elected representatives that the taxes we pay are excessive, intrusive, and unlegal. At some point those paying taxes have to decide between refusal to pay and continued confiscation of hard-earned property.

It seems our brothers in Canada and facing gun confiscation and the results are not that impressive. Reports I read indicate the voluntary compliance rate is something like 30%. If accurate, what that says is Canadians simply will not obey laws they consider to be unconstitutional or illegal. They are not violent or confrontational, they simply do not comply. If the authorities want to make an issue of it, they are the ones who foot the bills. What will they do if and when the jails are so full of gun resistors there is no room for truly violent offenders?

Just wonderin'
 
I have often said "Bring It On" is several areas...
If they really want to opress me to the point of wanting to fight me for it - NO PROBLEM.
If you thinking that I'ld go out of my way to pick a fight or I am WANTING a fight... No.
If you REALLY WANT A FIGHT - then A, your a sick puppy. Or B, you dont know what a real fight is.
 
Anyone remember the Civil War/War of Northern Aggression???

For those who can't identify with recent events in the Balkans, I would point out that we had a Civil War (sic) 140 years ago. A million Americans lost their lives, families were destroyed, economy trashed, and we are still not over it. Yeah, it'd be immensely satisfying to bitch-slap Al, Jesse, Sarah, Hillary, et al (and I could go on . . . ) around some, but seriously, be real effin careful what you wish for.
M2
 
Mike,
You're absolutely right. Folks who wish for armed conflict oughta have their heads examined.

In the Civil War we lost about 5% of our population. That'd be about thirteen million dead Americans these days.
 
I get the impression that some of you yearn for armed conflict.
Click to expand...

If I believed in a god I would pray to it that we never again have armed conflict on our soil (or, perfectly, anywhere else). The magnatude of death and suffering from a fratricidal civil war is unimaginable. Just look at how polarize Waco and Ruby Ridged made the country. And those didn't even have a whiff of true rebellion.
 
I think the reason many of us seem to bypass civil disobdience is that we believe where it is concerned some groups are more equal then others.If gun owners chose to engage in civil disobedience I think we would be met with a disproportionate amount of force.Recently here in St.Louis a group of minority contracters led by Al Sharpton blocked a major highway in order to make a point.There were a few gentle arrests.It was stated in advance that the police had been instructed to handle the protesters with kid gloves.Al Sharpton`s trial was yesterday.He showed up late for the trial and was fined $600 for his part in the event.

Contrast the above with the events at Ruby Ridge and Waco and it becomes easy to see why civil disobedience,at least in the form or organized protests looks less like a viable means of making a point.When the time comes,I`m sure many if not most gun owners will opt to disregard laws they feel are an infringment on our rights.
 
Noncompliance/ Northern neighbors

Gent's,
found this late last night, pertinent to your discussion........

"In Canada, surveys show that many gun owners will refuse to register. This percentage has increased since the law was passed.

In 1995, 72% said the'd comply. In 1997, only 58% said they would.

The rejection of firearm registration by "the policed' necessarily accelerates the tendency towards a militarization of the police.

This will further divide the police from the policed.
The debate over firearm registration has caused deep divisons in police ranks. Surveys of serving police officers show that many do not support this legislation.

The Canadian Police Association has voted to reconsider its support for firearm registration.

For the full story, and it's utter failure go to http://www.nationalreview.com, article by David Kopel.
Titled, "How Firearms Registration Works".
Very informative article on the abysmal failure in the northern parts.
 
A lot of our theories will be altered when, through various new Federal laws, we are all declared "terrorists" without us even doing anything.
 
He who wants a war

I will relate this short story for those of you that wonder about war . One night at about dark O'clock coming out of way south California I was stopped by the Border Patrol at a Truck Check Point . There was one young fella there dressed in camo and wearing a sidearm kinda low and the "way down and ready" hat. I asked him what his function was . He said " I'm ready for war " . I told him that he has never been in one . He asked how I could be so sure . I turned the Cat Diesel off so he could hear every word I had to say . I said " Anyone that has not been in a war might wonder what it's like . Anyone , myself included , that has been in a war is not real anxious to be in another one . " The LT. in charge ( with The Devil Dog tattoo on his arm ) smiled and waved me through .War ain't no fun . Necessary ? Yes , sometimes . Fun ? NO !!!
 
Maybe I ought to have my head examined then. Few people have read the original founding documents of our country. How many of you read Common Sense by Thomas Pain? In it Paine basically lays out why a war would be preferable to peace. Of course we must take into account that the King hadn't treated them nearly as badly as our "King" treats us. It wasn't a sudden thing either, the Colonies were losing their way of life bit by bit. Study up on your American Revolution if you need to. Start with Common Sense.

In the History of mankind, no liberties lost to government have ever been recovered without bloodshed -- EVER. How many have we lost? How many are we willing to never see again? We must draw a line in the sand somewhere. At some point, our love of our posterity must become equal to or greater than our fear of our government. I do not want my child to live under fear of government like I do. I don't want his kids to suffer the abuses of being a well-cared-for slave to a government not of the people, by the people, and for the people.

I've been to war, and though it was pretty easy (PGW), it wasn't without personal costs. I've seen death and destruction that few Americans will ever witness in person. War isn't nice, and war isn't pretty, but at some point, we must decide where we'll draw the line. These aren't liberties that you're giving up, and that will only affect you. They will affect you kids, grandkids and so on.

When the Progressives of the early part of the century decided to trade liberty for security, they achieved nothing. We now suffer under the income tax, and lingering effects of prohibition (war on drugs, street crimes, gun-control laws etc..). Anyone remember the '32 GCA?

When the British colonies undertook rebellion, they were being taxed at the extravagant rate of 3% on Sugar and Tea (only). How much do you pay? They were losing property rights when the King's representatives could come on his property, and choose which trees he (the King) would claim. (incidentally, a revolutionary flag had a lone pine tree on it as a symbol of the outrage they felt about this) Of course the best trees were taken for ship-building. How many property rights have you lost? Do you own your property or do you lease it from the government, being subject to forfeiture if you refuse to pay your yearly rent (taxes)?

Read the "intolerable acts" listed in the Declaration of independence. Has our government gone beyond these in its scope, and destructiveness? King George NEVER had a church burnt in the colonies despite what you saw on "The Patriot." Janet Reno burnt a church in front of our eyes, and then had the gall to lie to Congress and the world about it. Learn your history folks. We're seeing it come around again. Of course my favorite saying is "The one thing we learn from history is that we don't learn from history."

Of course we had the Colonies roughly divided into 3rds. 1/3rd were for rebellion, 1/3rd weren't sure, and 1/3rd were loyal to the King, and made up a sizeable portion of the Armies Washington fought against. Just as nobody knows when the spark will come that will ignight the quiet rage that many feel, nobody knew back then either. Finally, the people of Massachusetts decided that enough was enough (boy have those people changed). They weren't going to budge one more inch. Eventually, the rest of the colonies fell into line with Mass. The second time around, it was South Carolina. Will it be Nevada, Utah, Montanna or maybe Idaho this time?

I don't relish going to my premature death. If it happens again, I will in all likelyhood forfeit my life in the ugliness, but is my sacrafice even compareable to the sacrifice of those who have given all before me? I had a change of heart about the time that my son was born. I figured that some things are worth fighting for, dying for, and living for. My vain attempt at a peaceful solution is to become a teacher, and work to reverse the trend, but my knowlege of history tells me that this is indeed a vain attempt. Remember, No society ever relinquished its liberties and regained them again without bloodshed. None. Not Rome, not the Colonies, and not the South. Maybe my life will pass with no incidents, but if it doesn't work out that way, then- I'll live every day as though it were my last. If war comes to me, then so be it. I am not a child. I did take an oath once upon a time that I still hold sacred, and I'll be damned if I lose anymore liberties to an illegitimate government.
 
Being in a war will make you try almost anything short of going to war. But there is a line that should never be crossed and when it is, those of us who have been and know how to fight will do what has to be done. I hope the line is further off than we think, but it may not be. That is why many of us prepare. Not because we would EVER wish for it. But to be ready when it is forced upon us. I know I will not be firing the first shot, but hopefully will be among those firing the LAST ones.
 
I am afraid of fighting.

There are many reasons for that, mostly the usual (death, destruction, mayhem). Further, civil wars seldom present clear targets. When someone blows up your home, who do you blame or shoot?

There's another reason...



When time comes to work together on projects that advance liberty, that let us take back a little without bloodshed, how many here and elsewhere bother to participate?

Ask anyone who has received promises of assistance, of time or money or information and never received it. Ask people who show up at a rally only to find out that most of their allies are home, out of the cold and watching TV. Ask people who wish to publish or broadcast in defense of our rights only to find that no one would give the $20 (people who have that twenty and blew it on beer that same night).

If war comes, there'd be precious few people fighting for our side. I don't even know if I will be there or the rat will be back in the corner, hoping that no one sees it or the little ones. If I do fight, I'd be lucky to get a squad out of all the 4000+ active TFLers and that's my honest and unhappy opinion.
 
When cornered

A rat will fight to the death. No one really knows what one will do in any situation.

Most of us, on TFL, have never had to use our weapons in self defense. We have gone through some of the conditions, but never had to actually draw and fire. But we still practice, and practice, and practice. We try to invent scenerios that may or may not ever happen. BUT, when the time comes, we hope that our training takes the lead, but with our minds still in control, we don't really know how we're going to act.

The same goes for liberties. We do watch as churches are burned, wives are shot, and children die. We express our outrage the best way we can, via rallies, internet, and editorials. We vote, we watch as our votes are criticized because we voted for the "wrong" person. We express sympathy as we watch Americans get railroaded by losing their land, their homes, and sometimes their lives. But, who knows what we really feel we need to do to right these wrongs.

So, for the time being, we try to use what some dead old white men wrote that we should do to correct these things. But in the end, these folks did have to deal with the ultimate sacrifice. I for one don't wish to see it happen, I hope to see our voices heard and the ways changed by peaceful means. But, if I am pushed into the corner, I may fight like the rat, I hope I can, or I will just become another subject to the king, to be used as he or she sees fit.

I for one would be proud to become a rat in that situation.

USP45usp
 
Armed Conflict?

Been there. Done that.

Took the govment 27 years to give me my Purple Heart.

I know there's others out there that would cover, and watch my back. But, I wonder about the ones that won't fight at all. And, remembering how I was greeted when I came home in '68, I wonder what kind of support there would be out there for me, and for others, among the non-combatants. To speak of going to the gun is an easy thing, for many. But I remember names, engraved on black stone, of friends long passed, and doubt that there are many with the gumption left to either understand, or be willing to make, the sacrifices necessary.

"The Tree of Liberty, must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots."

How many patriots are out there?

And how many truely understand the terrible cost of war?
 
*snort*

Armed conflict is blood and pain and death and misery.

Anyone calling for a revolution should spend several years studying various revolutions throughout history.

Give the soap box, the ballot box and the jury box every possible chance before even considering the bullet box.

LawDog
 
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