I never thought I could be away from this site for two weeks but Finals are over now! So I just shot my new Daniel Defense AR (V3 LW) and I have read online that it is always a good idea to have a spare bolt carrier available because it is usually the first pieces to break on AR's. My question is, should I buy an extra one even though I have only shot 90rds and will probably shoot about 100-150rds per month? By the way the Daniel Defense is a joy to shoot and very accurate!
Do I Need An Extra Bolt Carrier?
- Thread starter Doublea A
- Start date
A bolt can break well after 10,000 rounds sometimes but the bolt carrier is rare to break even on crap guns. Buying a spare bolt now isn't a bad idea but it's not really necessary. That rifle should last well past your lifetime at the rate you use it. Good ARs live into the 20k+ range.
LockedBreech
New member
^ Good to know, also having a new DD (M4V1) with about 100 rounds through.
Any other parts we should keep around?
Any other parts we should keep around?
An extra bolt is a nice to have extra part because it takes the most beating, and is a subassembly of several parts that can fail. While they are rated for thousands of rounds, eventually something is going to break. A lug could break off, a firing pin break or be damaged, an ejector or spring break, stick or get lost during disassembly, an extractor could break or the spring weaken, etc. You could carry those individual parts, or just have an extra bolt to slap in until you have time to fix the original bolt.
Glad someone's finals are over i still got one Friday Bio II :barf:
Anyway if helps you sleep at night or unless you just want to have that warming feeling of a back up, sure get one. Other than that i doubt you'll actually "need" one for a very long time, unless some freak accident happens.
LockedBreech
New member
At risk of derailing the thread, but since we are talking about Daniel Defense ARs... I had a few newbie questions since this is my first AR.
1. I took this AR out without cleaning the packing grease off (stupid I know, but I was excited). After about 100 rounds of PMC Bronze 55gr, we started getting jams practically every shot. Am I assuming correctly that we simply gunked it up more than any AR should be expected to take? I just did my first disassembly and cleaning of the rifle and it was very filthy (most bolt carrier components looked like they had used motor oil on them, haha)
2. I bought an NCStar AR-15 bore brush from Amazon (with the bigger rear bristles to clean the lugs) but it seems too big to pass through the barrel. Do I just need to push harder? It gets pretty stuck without fully entering the barrel.
3. What parts of the bolt carrier/rifle in general should I focus the most lube on? I put some on various bolt carrier parts and that is about it.
Thanks! And sorry to the OP if this is taken as a hijack.
1. I took this AR out without cleaning the packing grease off (stupid I know, but I was excited). After about 100 rounds of PMC Bronze 55gr, we started getting jams practically every shot. Am I assuming correctly that we simply gunked it up more than any AR should be expected to take? I just did my first disassembly and cleaning of the rifle and it was very filthy (most bolt carrier components looked like they had used motor oil on them, haha)
2. I bought an NCStar AR-15 bore brush from Amazon (with the bigger rear bristles to clean the lugs) but it seems too big to pass through the barrel. Do I just need to push harder? It gets pretty stuck without fully entering the barrel.
3. What parts of the bolt carrier/rifle in general should I focus the most lube on? I put some on various bolt carrier parts and that is about it.
Thanks! And sorry to the OP if this is taken as a hijack.
Unless you feel you made need a gun back in service after a broken part immediately I would just wait and order parts as needed. I'm ex-army and i've seen ridiculous amounts of abuse heaped on M-4's/M-16's and while part failures occur, I never saw enough specific to a part that i would feel under prepared if i did not have spares of said part. (I was a range safety officer for 5 years so take my opinion at whatever grain of salt you wish)
Gotm4 said:
http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Lubrication-Cleaning-by-t19367.html
Your gun will be fine but thats exactly why you got jams i imagine. That preserving type oil is pretty thick. Just make sure you lube the BCG adequately till the metal wears itself in or smooths itself over in a sense. I always make sure to keep mine well lubed doesn't have to overly lubed, but i like a decently glossy looking film on mine. You'll notice when it smooths over or breaks itself in.
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Slow down and take care of your DD! Don't even think of trying to push a chamber brush through the bore! It's not meant to go down the bore.As far as lube, look at the contact points/rails of the carrier, upper receiver, charging handle and the bolt/rings and carrier and put some lube there. And other friction points like the FCG. Any place that gets shiny needs lube. Motor oil really isn't a bad lube.
As far as spare BCGs, they're good to have around but tend to morph into a new AR!
LockedBreech
New member
Thanks a bunch Blackops! I am not terribly worried, but just wanted to be sure it was well cared for. It is just a beautiful rifle. Practically screams quality when you hold it.
A properly made bolt should last you a long time, given your relatively unstressful firing schedule. However, I have seen bolts break around the cam-pin hole, and I have lost a extractor roll pin before (this was back when I was new to the AR).
You don't *need* another bolt carrier group. I have a spare but have yet to use any parts from it in about ~7,000 rounds over 2 years. For now, the $150 or so is better spent towards ammunition and training. A days worth of training will go a long way towards familiarizing you with that AR.
With respect to .223 Bore brushes, I have never had to force a brass brush through the bore. Usually, the brush will engage the rifling and rotate as I pass the cleaning rod through my barrel.
Lawscholar, the brush you have is most likely for use in cleaning the chamber and barrel extension (or sometimes called the 'star chamber'--funny law joke if you get it). I would NOT force that brush any further than the chamber. You can use that brush to give the chamber and extension a good scrubbing, then patch it with CLP and clean up the rest with Q-tips. The malfunctions you experienced after about 100 rounds were likely from the lack of lubricant--ARs like to run wet, especially if your Daniel Defense was as dry and dirty as mine was when I received it.
I'm usually pretty sloppy with my lubrication. I'll put some on the inside of the receiver and by the vent holes, then rack the action a few times. The action should feel nice and smooth (if it's gritty, it's usually either dirty or unlubricated). However, if you want to be particular about it, the Bolt Carrier rides on 4 load bearing points:
Lube those points
Also lube the bottom as shown here:
Finally, I usually like it if the bolt carrier has a nice coat of CLP on it.*
YMMV, as always. There are some real SMEs on this forum who will probably correct me. This has worked for me in the couple of years of extensively shooting the AR, so I hope this helps.
You don't *need* another bolt carrier group. I have a spare but have yet to use any parts from it in about ~7,000 rounds over 2 years. For now, the $150 or so is better spent towards ammunition and training. A days worth of training will go a long way towards familiarizing you with that AR.
With respect to .223 Bore brushes, I have never had to force a brass brush through the bore. Usually, the brush will engage the rifling and rotate as I pass the cleaning rod through my barrel.
Lawscholar, the brush you have is most likely for use in cleaning the chamber and barrel extension (or sometimes called the 'star chamber'--funny law joke if you get it). I would NOT force that brush any further than the chamber. You can use that brush to give the chamber and extension a good scrubbing, then patch it with CLP and clean up the rest with Q-tips. The malfunctions you experienced after about 100 rounds were likely from the lack of lubricant--ARs like to run wet, especially if your Daniel Defense was as dry and dirty as mine was when I received it.
I'm usually pretty sloppy with my lubrication. I'll put some on the inside of the receiver and by the vent holes, then rack the action a few times. The action should feel nice and smooth (if it's gritty, it's usually either dirty or unlubricated). However, if you want to be particular about it, the Bolt Carrier rides on 4 load bearing points:
Lube those points
Also lube the bottom as shown here:
Finally, I usually like it if the bolt carrier has a nice coat of CLP on it.*
YMMV, as always. There are some real SMEs on this forum who will probably correct me. This has worked for me in the couple of years of extensively shooting the AR, so I hope this helps.
I just open the ejection port and spray lube into the general area of the receiver. Then I keep firing.
Good ARs like DD, BCM, Colt, etc, run best when a little wet. Keep a small bottle of a CLP in your pack or BOB and lube when dry. Only if you're in a dust environment would I advise to watch where you lube to keep dust from attracting to it. IE the buffer tube area.
Chamber brushes and fancy cleaning rods are just feel-good items for bench shooters. Keep a standard multi-piece rod and use when needed with a patch. All the worn out M16A2s troops get in basic are that way because of people over-cleaning their rifle. Don't do that. Wipe stuff off with a towel and run an oil patch through the bore.
Good ARs like DD, BCM, Colt, etc, run best when a little wet. Keep a small bottle of a CLP in your pack or BOB and lube when dry. Only if you're in a dust environment would I advise to watch where you lube to keep dust from attracting to it. IE the buffer tube area.
Chamber brushes and fancy cleaning rods are just feel-good items for bench shooters. Keep a standard multi-piece rod and use when needed with a patch. All the worn out M16A2s troops get in basic are that way because of people over-cleaning their rifle. Don't do that. Wipe stuff off with a towel and run an oil patch through the bore.
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Well, I think a spare bolt can be a good idea. Having a spare bolt on hand gives you a backup for the extractor spring, extractor, ejector spring, ejector, gas rings and of course the bolt itself. If you are having difficulties with extraction or ejection, simply replacing the whole bolt can be a fast and easy solution to get the rifle back up and running until you have the time to diagnose the specific problem.
In addition, while bolt lugs breaking off or bolts snapping at the cam pin hole are rare, they do happen and a spare bolt helps with this as well.
A spare bolt carrier is a little less easy to carry around. It offers you a spare gas key, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin. The firing pin and firing pin retaining pin rarely fail, so really all having a spare bolt carrier offers is a replacement if your current bolt carrier's gas key fails. I find that preventative maintenance addresses the gas key issue pretty well, so I tend to lean towards thinking a spare bolt carrier is unnecessary (although I do have one - more by chance than design).
Not all corrosion preventatives make good lubricants and some can cause problems with the operation. I'd give it a good cleaning per the manual and then relube the rifle.
As others mentioned, this is likely the chamber brush and not the bore brush. It is designed to clean the chamber area and not to pass through the bore.
Give this SWAT Magazine article a read: Keep It Running - by: Pat Rogers. In addition to a lifetime of experience that includes Force Recon, NYPD, federal agencies and teaching those who teach our elite, Pat Rogers is also the owner of "Filthy 14" - an AR that has over 44,000 rounds on it now with no cleaning. So he has some insight into how to keep the AR running.
Another good read is: Why M4’s have reliability issues…and why it’s our fault! by Michael Pannone This is another guy with lots of experience and good advice.
In addition, while bolt lugs breaking off or bolts snapping at the cam pin hole are rare, they do happen and a spare bolt helps with this as well.
A spare bolt carrier is a little less easy to carry around. It offers you a spare gas key, firing pin, and firing pin retaining pin. The firing pin and firing pin retaining pin rarely fail, so really all having a spare bolt carrier offers is a replacement if your current bolt carrier's gas key fails. I find that preventative maintenance addresses the gas key issue pretty well, so I tend to lean towards thinking a spare bolt carrier is unnecessary (although I do have one - more by chance than design).
LawScholar said:
Not all corrosion preventatives make good lubricants and some can cause problems with the operation. I'd give it a good cleaning per the manual and then relube the rifle.
As others mentioned, this is likely the chamber brush and not the bore brush. It is designed to clean the chamber area and not to pass through the bore.
Give this SWAT Magazine article a read: Keep It Running - by: Pat Rogers. In addition to a lifetime of experience that includes Force Recon, NYPD, federal agencies and teaching those who teach our elite, Pat Rogers is also the owner of "Filthy 14" - an AR that has over 44,000 rounds on it now with no cleaning. So he has some insight into how to keep the AR running.
Another good read is: Why M4’s have reliability issues…and why it’s our fault! by Michael Pannone This is another guy with lots of experience and good advice.
davlandrum
New member
Having a spare of anything really comes down to how fast do you need to be up and running again.
I don't have spare parts for any of my guns (no ARs, but doesn't matter). I do, however have spare guns that I can use until I get one fixed.
I don't have spare parts for any of my guns (no ARs, but doesn't matter). I do, however have spare guns that I can use until I get one fixed.
LockedBreech
New member
you guys have been EXTREMELY helpful. Thank you. Needless to say, glad I didn't force the bore brush.
jackblack73
New member
Just to reiterate what has been said, what you bought is not a bore brush. It's a chamber brush.
To the OP, you bought a high quality AR and the chances of you needing a spare bolt anytime soon are slim. Since you're apparently still a student, unless you're heading into a war zone I'd save my money and spend it on something else, like more ammo.
LockedBreech
New member
Chamber brush, right. Sorry, Amazon labeled it bore brush and that is stuck in my head.,rest assured it will not be used on the bore.
While a bolt carrier group is easily $150 or more, a spare bolt only costs about $50-60. If your carrier has been staked properly, and DD makes quality products, then you should never have any reason to replace the carrier. While the bolt itself is unlikely to fail, parts such as gas rings, ejectors, and extractors do fail often. Even the aforementioned Pat Rogers recommends inspection and replacement of such parts as needed, and IMO it's a wise idea to keep such parts on hand if you plan to keep a rifle running.
Personally, I do keep a spare bolt on hand because they're cheap and easily swapped. A cheaper option is to keep a bolt rebuild kit around, which only costs about $20. I also keep a spare firing pin, cam pin, hammer and trigger pin, and some assorted springs on hand just in case. Scrounge around at gun shows and most of them can be had for $5 or less.