DIY polishing of internal parts

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db4570

New member
I have a S&W Bodyguard 380 that I really like, but that I have had continual reliability problems with. It is a few months old, and it back at S&W for the third time, this time for failure-to-fire.

I have been reading and studying about this gun a lot recently, and it seems that many guys make big improvements to them by completely disassembling them and cleaning up any rough spots on the moving parts. There are detailed videos and documents that walk one through this.

I am considering doing this even if my gun appears to finally be fixed by S&W. If S&W can't address my reliability issues, I think this may help get me there, along with installing a stronger aftermarket hammer spring to address the light strikes.

I am an experienced gun owner and mechanically adept, with a fairly decent workshop.

I have no interest in changing any of the factory design. For example, I won't try to lighten the trigger or change its characteristics except to possibly smooth it out a little, along with the other internal components.

The instructions on how to do this work always say to not actually remove any metal, but just to carefully polish it up. This doesn't really make sense to me, because my understanding is that any time you smooth out rough parts or polish them, you are in fact removing at least a tiny amount of metal.

I am interested in the opinions and suggestions of anyone experienced with this type of work, as far as how to proceed.

Thanks for any help!

David
 
Polishing internal parts is usually done for two reasons. One is to smooth the trigger pull and the other is to smooth the feed ramp/chamber for better feeding and extraction.

If you are having fail to fire problems, then polishing the internals isn't likely to solve that problem unless you just happen to find a burr or something else impeeding the firing pin travel.
 
Thanks for the reply, Doyle. What you say makes sense.

But I'm thinking the firing pin and its cavity and related mechanisms may be candidates for cleaning and some polishing. If nothing else, I'd like to get it torn down and cleaned/inspected/lubed.

David
 
If this is a project to test your skill and "DANGIT, get the last word!" and beat this troublesome pistol, I can see why you would take on this task.

A S&W Bodyguard really has one purpose -- small defensive carry.

It's been back to S&W three times?!
And you want to take it apart and help make it work?

My first choice would be to sell this lemon.
My second choice would be to drop it on the 100 yard berm and get a rifle out and end it mercifully.

Wait -- reverse that. I can't bear the idea that selling this one pistol might lead another good person to even consider using it for carry or defense.

Smith & Wesson should eat this and give you serious $$ credit toward something else.
 
Before I start let me say that I have tool and die experience. That being said I have never sent any gun back when they were broken and still under warranty. I first search the internet for the problem and find what others have done to fix it. I have learned a lot doing this and have always had good luck doing it. If you feel uncomfortable with it perhaps you could find someone to help you and get you started.
 
Before I did anything I would want a clear understanding of exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
I'd want to know exactly what I was going to cut,and why.

Making things smooth,shiny,and rounded can simply make things worn out.

Generally,a big mistake is trying to take out low spots.Like "toolmarks"

Nothing is gained working surfaces that do not bear friction.If nothing rubs,what is the point?

The low spots do not rub.They get floated over.They may serve to hold lube or trap contaminants that would otherwise be a problem.What may look horribly war finish rough,may actually be reliable.

Dings,burrs,high spots..yes,can be an issue.A light floating of the stone can help.Knock the peaks down to plateaus.

Some functional sharp edges are critical.Generally,therest of sharp edges can use a light corner break.. .003 or .005 is enough,usually."Any" is enough.
With one exception.Outside corner chamfers must be greater than inside corner chamfers on mating parts.

Details like sear engagements,etc,are best left alone unless you have something like a sear jig to control angles and flatness precisely.

Fluffy buffing with a dremel,while popular,is a bad idea.
Most hand stoning will be to some degree off angle and rounding.

Bad idea.

Have you identified a specific problem?If "Yes" good!! If no,what would rubbing random metal off help?

If "Yes", "The problem is---------- as evidenced by ------.The ideal would be ---------.I have these resources-------.With these,if I do --------,etc.

Adding a quart of oil to a full crank case will not help a low tire.

Be very careful about DYI kitchen table "gunsmithing" videos.Any hack gunbutcher can make one.

Clues: The kitchen table,rather than a workman's bench.Lack of a vise.Lack of the means to see/hold square,flat,straight.

A claw hammer,with extra bonus points for a broken off claw....
 
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HiBC, my favorite is when they use a 6 in 1 tool, in the video, that looks like a set of pliers, while working on the coffee table. Then, they name the parts gizzmo and whatchamacallit.
 
If this is a project to test your skill and "DANGIT, get the last word!" and beat this troublesome pistol, I can see why you would take on this task.

A S&W Bodyguard really has one purpose -- small defensive carry.

It's been back to S&W three times?!
And you want to take it apart and help make it work?

Smith & Wesson should eat this and give you serious $$ credit toward something else.
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Maybe I should have given more background on the situation with this gun, because the opposite is actually the case.

On the S&W forum, a couple people suggested replacing the hammer spring with a stronger Galloway, which seems to have a good reputation. I resisted that idea, thinking that S&W has the extensive expertise with this gun, and they should be able to fix it.

But then I got to thinking. What if they never can fix it 100%, but a simple aftermarket part might do it? How long do I want to fight this battle if a simple fix is out there? And if I could clean it up a bit in the process, why not?
My first choice would be to sell this lemon.
My second choice would be to drop it on the 100 yard berm and get a rifle out and end it mercifully.

Wait -- reverse that. I can't bear the idea that selling this one pistol might lead another good person to even consider using it for carry or defense.

Smith & Wesson should eat this and give you serious $$ credit toward something else.
Click to expand...

The problem is that there is nothing else out there like it.

There is the LCP, which I used to own, and loved (talk about a reliable gun!), but switched to the S&W for the manual safety. No, I am not in the mood to debate manual safety or not.

There are Kahrs and Keltecs without safeties. There are Sigs with 1911 type actions, which I don't want. (And again, don't want to debate.)

There are Bersas and PPKs and P64s and all sorts of sweet 380s that are just too big. Once you go really small it's hard to go back.

So I really want to figure out how to make this gun work for me. In fairness, S&W has been helpful and seems eager to get it sorted out. It has been bumped up to supervisor status.

David
 
Before I start let me say that I have tool and die experience. That being said I have never sent any gun back when they were broken and still under warranty. I first search the internet for the problem and find what others have done to fix it. I have learned a lot doing this and have always had good luck doing it. If you feel uncomfortable with it perhaps you could find someone to help you and get you started.
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My thoughts exactly. But then I read:

Before I did anything I would want a clear understanding of exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
I'd want to know exactly what I was going to cut,and why.

Making things smooth,shiny,and rounded can simply make things worn out.
Click to expand...

You guys are killing me.

Seriously, I appreciate all the responses. They are very helpful and well thought out.

HiBC, you have given me a lot of good reasons to take my time before jumping in to this. I understand that some edges need to be sharp, some smooth. The trick is knowing which is which.

This is what I was reading and thinking about doing. It seemed pretty sensible, but now I'm having second thoughts.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...CAdiEHjMUk4--aQ&bvm=bv.90491159,d.cWc&cad=rja
 
I have to go back to "why are you doing this?" That post is good info about polishing the internals which might make it function smoother but it's not likely to do one thing about fixing a fail-to-fire situation.
 
I have to go back to "why are you doing this?" That post is good info about polishing the internals which might make it function smoother but it's not likely to do one thing about fixing a fail-to-fire situation.
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I think you have a valid point, which I am taking seriously.

But is there the possibility that if the firing pin and its mechanism aren't doing their job, it could be because of needing to be cleaned up and polished? I haven't examined it yet, so can't see exactly what is going on there mechanically. What else would cause light strikes? A weak spring, possibly. The first time I sent it in they replaced the firing pin, but no mention of the spring.

David
 
I clicked you link and looked at the guy's procedure.

Don't get me wrong...If a skilled person had to get by making a punch from a finishing nail or using his wifes manicure emery boards for polishing stones...well,he could likely get the job done.

But those are the sort of clues I suggest you look for.They do not inspire confidence.Oh,"Watch out,that spring goes flying!! Took an hour to find it!!Yeah.Follow me!!
" I polished the hammer strut up real good,not sure what it helps but it makes me feel better.."??? Really?

It is my suggestion you not touch the internals of a firearm with a cloth buffing wheel and abrasive on a dremel.If it seems like a good idea to you,I suggest you not modify (polish) internal gun parts.

OK,I will get some heat.If you are a smith who uses a dremel to advantage,fine!!

If the flat side of his hammer needs to have high spots knocked of,use a flat,fine hard stone.Like an india extra fine.Float the flat side of the hammer flat on the flat stone ,little figure 8's with your fingers,..maybe 5 or ten seconds.High spots are knocked off.
What does a 25,000 rpm round rag do?UHHH Shiny?..OK,but,is shiny flat?
..But,first,before taking it apart,is there a problem?Can you feel interference?
Your firing pin,while fully assempled,handgun checked for unloaded,cock the hammer.Push the little nail punch on the rear of the firing pin.Does it move smoothly against some spring resistance?
If it works,don't fix it
I'd guess ,if you work on it,next time you send it to S+W,they will say "Ah,the youtube gunsmith has tampered !!

You do understand the case mouth resting on the forward edge of the chamber is the "anvil" for the firing pin strike,yes?
So,tell me about your ammo.

Also,when you get a light strike,is the slide fully forward?

And,how many "break in rounds" has this pistolfired?
 
HiBC, the difference is, a Gunsmith knows, (or should), what they can use a Dremel on, and what they can't. I use a motor tool, with a flex shaft, as you have more control.
 
OK, HiBC. You have talked me out of going off half-cocked on this project. I'm glad you took a look at the guy's procedure, and appreciate your critique.

It probably doesn't need anything that he recommends. I was seduced by his talking about how smooth the gun was after he finished with it. But you know something? I never fretted about it being not smooth before I read his post. So I can leave it well enough alone.

More about the gun:

You do understand the case mouth resting on the forward edge of the chamber is the "anvil" for the firing pin strike,yes?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I don't know what you're getting at.

So,tell me about your ammo.
Click to expand...

Winchester white box ball, Rem white box ball, Speer Lawman ball, Hornady Critical Defense; all malfunctioned in one way or another. The FTFire were all, I think, on the Win and Rem. I have put about 20 rounds of Hydrashok (my current choice of carry ammo) through it without issue, but at over $1 a shot have not tested it extensively with it yet. I have never shot Russian or off-brand or steel case ammo.

Also,when you get a light strike,is the slide fully forward?
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Sorry, I didn't notice. I just pulled the trigger a second time and it fired. I am assuming that since it went off on the second strike, without me re-racking, it was seated? I wish I had taken the time to be more observant of the primer marks.

And,how many "break in rounds" has this pistolfired?
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250-300. Has been acting up since day one. The last trip to S&W seems to have fixed the FTFeed, stovepipe, FT hold the slide back after last shot. It still auto-forwards sometimes, but not as bad as it used to. The FTF is my only real concern right now.

Thanks, again, for your help on this.

David
 
The next time if fails to fire, STOP. Hold the barrel pointing downrange for a slow count of 10 just to make sure you don't have a hang fire then pull that round out. Get a magnifying glass and compare the primer indentation on that round with the primer indentation on a round of the same brand that did go off. If the indentation is just as deep on both, then it is likely the fault of the ammo. If the FTF is shallower than the one that did fire, then you have something impeeding the travel of the firing pin.
 
I don't think you will gain much from that observeration. Mostly because the indentation on a properly fired case has extreme pressures acting all around it and those conditions will affect the resulting product that you end up seeing on the fired case.

Furthermore, with hundreds of factory rounds across four distinctly different brands -- it is the gun.

If I were doing the testing, I would build handloads using not only the hardest cup primer on the market (CCI), I would use a CCI-400 small rifle primer and until it would do 100% with those, I wouldn't call it a victory. For sure, the CCI-400 will be more difficult to reliably light off and if you can get the pistol to do that, and every time, then I believe you have cured the light strike problem.

Re: "forward edge of chamber/ANVIL"
Good point. He is saying that if the chamber is cut too far and the cartridge finds itself sitting too deeply due to this, you will NEVER get the full energy of that firing pin delivered to the primer as it should. If this were the problem, it would only be corrected witn a new barrel. A good home test would be to beg, borrow or steal a trusty Bodyguard and compare how deeply the same factory round sits in each chamber.

The optimist in me hopes that S&W would find this issue if the main complaint is multiple fail to fire.
 
Db4570,

To address part of your original question, there is a difference between zero material removal and significant material removal. Many buffing and polishing techniques remove small fractions of a tenth of a thousandth of an inch, leaving you unable to measure the change without a laser micrometer or other special instrument. I think that is all that was meant by the admonition not to remove material; don't remove amounts measurable by conventional means. You have no idea where your copy of the gun's parts are in their tolerance range, and not changing them by a measurable amount guarantees you don't change them enough to push them outside that tolerance.
 
If you're needing to polish something, making it slick, those mounted scotch-brite wheels work well on small parts. Though, they're not near as abrasive as Cratex.

I have polished the frame bosses and stud for the hammer, and the slots for the hammer safety and hand, in the side plate, to make sure nothing drags. That has been on ones who had rough machining marks on them, and I was working on the smoothest trigger pull possible.

I do not think that is what is wrong with this pistol, though. One would need to use a feeler gauge to check for proper headspace, and afterwards, firing pin protrusion.
 
I took a look at a bunch of the primers from fired casings, and the indentation looks really wimpy compared to my CS9. A lot smaller, often odd shaped, and shallower. The CS9 just looked a lot more positive.

I can't wait to get it back from S&W because I'm starting to get obsessed with it, and finding out how to make it right.

It has a new barrel, but it would be interesting to know how the headspace is. I had not thought of that.

So far S&W has replaced barrel, firing pin, slide stop, and mag followers, and have polished the feed ramp.

Galloway makes a higher power hammer spring that gets good reviews. I am probably the only person who doesn't complain about the trigger on the BG, so what's a couple extra pounds of spring pressure?

They also make what is supposed to be a stronger firing pin. (Apparently some early BGs broke theirs.) What's interesting is that it's also .025" longer than stock. It seems like these two mods could solve my problem.

Galloway also provides weaker springs for the firing pin return and blocker to let the pin cycle more freely. These make me a little nervous, safety-wise. But I would like to take a look at the blocker and where it contacts the firing pin to see if it might be dragging.

I actually mentioned mentioned this stronger trigger spring to the S&W guy before I sent it in this last time. He kind of chuckled and said, "The gun has a lifetime warranty. Let us make it right." He's got a point. But how many more trips is it going to require? Not to mention hundreds of rounds of ammo for testing ($$$).

In the meantime I don't have a gun I like to carry.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions, and keep them coming!

David
 
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