Distance Shooting

E

emptyjarhead

Inactive
Hi there y'all! Im Aaron. Ive been around rifles all my life and since my time in the Marines my interest has only increased.
Recently I have turned my interest in shooting to the horizon... literally. I want to be able to aquire the gear and skills to be a distance shooter. And by distance I mean 800m+. I know some people consider anything over 100m-200m long distance but come on!? I want to be able to "Reach out and touch someone." rather something, hunting big game.
I can consistantly hit a man-sized target at up to 500m wityh my M16A2 but it's just not doing it for me. I have occaionally shot at distances up to 800m but no further. I would eventually like to get a .50 BMG rifle for my endgame, but should robably start with something in the 800m-1000m range. I know that USMC scout snipers utilize the Remington M700 M40 Varient with an effective range of 900m, but is there a better, or rather a rifle that can deliver more "bang for my buck"? Meaning a less expensive rifle with a further range while still utilizing 7.62x51 ammuntion?
Also, when I do eventually get a .50 BMG or some varient, which one would you recommend? Any experience and advice you care to offer would be appreciated.
 
Most of us don't like the idea of shots beyond 400 or 500 on big game because of the problem with wind drift and wounding. And, without a laser range finder, guessing the distance accurately enough so the trajectory works out can also result in wounding.

As far as the Big Fifty, some folks here have them, but there are dedicated websites with beaucoup discussions about specific rifles and loading data.

Since I'm more of a hunter than a target shooter, I'll defer to others for the "more usual" long distance target rifle choices. :)
 
I've been big game hunting before and downed a zebra at 600m. I did not have a problem with windage or bullet drop because its very easy to calculate and adjust for it. Although you are correct, having a laser range finder would be much easier with anything past that. The only reason I made the 600m shot is because I shoot at the 500m range so often and 100m isnt a whole lot further.
I know that most military snipers make shots at around the 900m-1000m range without the aid of a LRF. However they usually have a spotter.
I supposed the benfit to having a .50 bmg rifle would be that you never need to worry about "wounding" or grazing fire. Its just "Oh! I hit somewhere on your body? There goes a cubic ft of flesh!" Even at distances up to 1800m.
 
You are going to get a lot of flack about hunting at those ranges. Shooting targets is another matter. Everybody has their own personal limits based on their skills and equipment.

My thoughts.

Most anyone using modern chamberings and optics can learn to make consistent hits to 300 yards. Going to 400 requires a little better gear, and some trigger time, but should not be out of the reach of someone dedicated to learn how.

Going to 500 and beyond starts to get to the point where more specialized optics and accurate range finders are really needed to be consistent. Hitting a man sized target is not the same as a basetball sized kill zone on an animal. Much beyond 300-400 yards and wind starts to be a huge factor.

I'm not that good, around 400 is my personal limit, but I know folks and have relatives that have taken several head of game out to 700 yards. All were bedded animals that never stood up after being hit. They use either 338 lapua or various 300 magnums.

I think you'll get the most bang for the buck with one of the 300's. The Army is transitioning to the 300 WM for their snipers and after testing preferred it to the 338 Lapua. The big 50 is great for taking out vehicles, or shooting through concrete walls, but I just don't think you need that for punching paper or hunting deer and elk sized game. A 300 would be a lot cheaper to buy and feed too. It should get you well past 1000 yards for paper. Not sure how I feel about animals at that range. But if you are confident of your skills that is a decision you have to make.
 
The USDA are the people who manage the govt. hunters that get rid of nusiance animals that are problems around airports, such as geese, birds, and deer and do predator control. They are also used when there is a chance of disease being spread by wildlife. The one event I remember was the outbreak of bangs disease in Montana. It had the potential to cause a lot of problems to the ranchers who were raising cattle.
The govt hunters were issued and used 308 cal rifles and shot many 100's of the deer 700-800 yrds away. The 308 has the ability to deliver spectacular terminal ballistics at those ranges. It is also the cartridge that has more ballistic data available then any other cartridge we know. All those super duper 338 and 50's aren't really necessary for the ranges you are talking about.
One has to be able to soak up all the recoil and noise from these super boomers that they push back at you when you shoot it. The expense in its self of shooting those rifles make it pretty prohibitive. Get your self a 308 and you won't have to take a loan out to get the rifle, or buy ammo for it. Too top it off you won't beat into a frazzle of flinches from shooting it.:D
 
To be honest, I dont really intend to on using a .50 for anything except target shooting, and possibly post apocalypse. The .50 BMG for me is the holy grail. Sure, it was originally designed for anti-vehicle purposes. If I can make a shot at 1609m at least (a mile) I can die happy. Dont judge, it's the simple pleasures in life.

Seeing as I actually have a laser Range Finder I aquired from a friend and a buddy I regularly hunt with I dont think distance will be much of a limiting factor.
The further away you can get and still punch a hole in the baseball sized killzone just seems to make the challenge that much more rewarding.

Do you happen to know what brand and model 308 they were using? If I can get the specs and it's range is in the 800m-900m range I might be onboard.
 
one mile

Check out David Tubb's "The One Mile Shot" for information, Google will bring up all sorts of info and videos.
Tubb used a 6.5X284.
 
I'm with jmr40, in that 400 yards is usually about as far out as I go. But, the far edge of my hay field is 500 yards away and time and again I see coyotes working their way up that edge. Seeing that I am not fond of coyotes, I got a new rifle (260) and put a good scope on it. Already have shot a pig at 490, and I'm waiting for my chance at a coyote. I will not shoot a deer at that range.

As for a rangefinder, I hope you have a good one because in most cases my RF is also limited to about 400 yards. For what you plan to do, I guess I'd have to go with the Leica 1600.

Semper Fi....
 
I can consistantly hit a man-sized target at up to 500m wityh my M16A2 but it's just not doing it for me.
Click to expand...

Then shoot your 'a2 at 1000 yards. The AR are used quite successfully shooting 1000 yard service rifle matches, WITH IRONS.

The 308 works well at 1000, the 300 WM works well at 1000 also.

All three are much cheaper to shoot then the "fifty" and there are more places you can shoot.

Practice and range time is more important the size when it comes to shooting long range. You can put 5 times more ammo down range with 308s over the 50 cal.

Unless you want to spend $2000 or more LRFs are iffy. Get a Mil Dot Scope and learn to use it. If you can see it, you can range it.

One thing you can take to the bank, Fundamentals beat Big Guns every time.
 
I definitely recommend the .308 Win. cartridge. Its milder recoil makes it much easier to shoot accurate. But nothing bigger than one of the new rimless 30 caliber magnums.

Savage probably makes the most accurate "out of the box" rifles these days. What we don't know is how those specific ones were selected for the team in Great Britian. My opinion is they all had their barrels air gauged and only those with very uniform, tight bores were used. It's long been known by competitive shooters that best accuracy comes with bullets that are a few ten-thousandths larger than the barrel's groove diameter and have very uniform bore and groove diameters. Even a whole thousandth bigger works excellent.

Note that because the various 5.56 NATO chambered service rifles have never shot the good long range scores as often as 7.62 NATO chambered ones, the US Army Marksmanship Unit finally convinced the NRA to allow AR10's in service rifle long range matches. All their great M14NM rifles were no longer available and they needed somthing better so they could keep up with the scores shot by M1's and M1A's at the Nationals. The Army team kicked buts at the Nationals a couple of years ago using them setting a record along the way. 22 caliber service rifles just don't cut the accuracy mustard past 600 yards as cleanly and often as 30 caliber ones.

The AR10 barrel is 20 inches. The Army team shot Berger 185's with loads on the hot side. Muzzle velocity had to be fast enough to keep them supersonic to 1000 yards in cool weather.
 
Last edited:
Well, you're in luck. The long range game has never been more popular so there's oodles and oodles of info at your fingertips on youtube and everywhere (snipershide.com , longrangehunting.com , and other long range sites too), as well as oodles of great custom rifle builders and semi-custom shops like GAP and so on.

There's also a lot of popularity in the "practical" shooting competitions, mostly in western states, in addition to the traditional long rangers like F Class. So you'll find what you're looking for if you look around. I'd try snipershide and other similar sites (forums) first.

Check the used markets like gunbroker and what have you for great deals on long range rigs. Have in mind what you want in terms of general weight class (light, medium, or heavy), and pick a chambering preference or at least narrow it down to 2 or 3 or 4 that interest you.

.50 BMG - yeah it's one of 4 or 5 "ultimate" long range rounds out there, along with .416 Barrett, .408 Cheytac, .375 Cheytac, etc., but man are they super-heavy and super expensive to shoot, assuming you can even afford to buy one to begin with. Pain to haul to the range. And not needed except for anti-materiel applications.

You can get REALLY far with 7mms, .30 cals, and .338s. I think you easily get to 1,250 yards with a 7mm or .30 cal, so I would certainly never go bigger than those chamberings myself. Sure the .338s are popular now (.338 Lapua, .338 Edge, .338 RUM, etc.), but if you look at the BCs of some of the .30 cal bullets, it just ain't worth it to step up to .338 with all that weight, expense, and recoil. .338s have lost their mojo, as far as I'm concerned, unless you're talking anti-materiel applications. Jump from a 7mm or .30 straight to a monster like .50 BMG if you need more oomph - this is due to BCs.

Get a rig chambered in a 7mm or .30 (or even a 6.5 cal) to see if you like it. Then if you do, just skip the .338s and go straight to .50 BMG or another big boy later. Look at chamberings like .300 WSM, 7mm WSM, 6.5-284, 6.5mm-'06. Or go hog wild with a buttstomper and get a .300 Rem ultra mag if you get a heavier rig that can help you stand the recoil.

Rifles, man there's so many choices - as always, depends first and foremost upon budget.
 
Last edited:
distance shooting

I luv distance shooting,i live in gods country an I can shoot when ever an where ever I want, I a 6x284 nickel bull barrel with thumb hole stock that weighs 16 lbs lol an a ar with a 30 in. fluted barrel cobra both built by the kingfish ron lewis a dear friend who taught me long distance shooting last year he broke two world records
he took me prarie dog hunting an I was shooting them with that ar at 600 yrds but the scope is was using I would have to hock my house

I normally shoot out to 400 max with a pentax 8x24 on both rifles the 6x284 I use berger 85 gr.btbt the ar depends on the distance 100 use 55gr,200 use 62 gr 300+ 70 gr
one of my problems I have is mirages, shooting through them, ron taught me ,but I still mess up, theres a trick to it, an I still get confused ,my cognitive memory is shot lol
does anyone have anything to say about mirages
I wish I could afford one of those scopes like you are talking about that does everything for you but being a disabled vet dosent allow me to buy such toys as that lol
 
Sounds like you need a .338 Lapua not a 50 Cal
I love my AR30 it's not super heavy and with the brake it kicks like a .308 and still has 1300 foot pounds of energy at 1000yds
 
I would caution against buying a Vulcan 50 BMG...since a video on YouTube depicts a guy getting a bolt lodged in his neck, when he closed the bolt on a Vulcan loaded action.

Find a range that accepts 50 BMG fire. You'll probably have to warn the RSO's and fellow shooter's on such firing ranges, that you'll be firing a 50 BMG, or something similar. You'll probably still get verbal flak from fellow surrounding shooter's, due to the muzzle blast.
 
One of my brothers lives at the foot of the Rockies. He and his friends haul their .50 BMGs into the foothills and use the Rockies as their backdrop to shoot targets at 1000 and 1500 yards.

I think I bought 10-15 guns with the money he spent on his one rifle. And his cost per shot is over a dollar a round. He has never fed that rifle any factory ammo but if he did he'd be looking at several dollars per shot.

But if you have the itch for John Browning's biggest and baddest, well, you'll end up scratching that itch one way or the other. :) Maybe you can find a place they shoot them and pay someone to let you try one out. I tried my brother's rifle and it's a blast to shoot! Then I calculated the reloading cost and the purchase cost and the mandatory super optics cost and decided I could live without one. My brother, otoh, has never been sorry he spent and spends the money.

The suggestions to try a .300 WM or .338 something-or-other is a good one. You can reach way out with those and maybe they'll satisfy your craving. If so, you'll save a bundle. If not, well, enjoy the .50 BMG you end up getting. And don't forget to come back and show us some pics. :)
 
Depending on the game you intend to shoot, you might consider one of the 6.5's as they noticibly reduce wind drift. You still have to know your range, so a laser range finder or the like is advisable.

Plus the recoil is fairly mild on a Creedmoor or 6.5x47 Lapua. With the 123 grain bullet you can stay supersonic to 1400 yards +, if the online ballistic calculators are to be believed.

The demands of shooting beyond 300 meters are fairly stiff, both requiring excellent equipment, and well honed skills. If this is something you are bent on doing, you might consider a 10 inch steel rifle plate as a target. If you hit it consistently from whatever position you are employing at whatever distances you place it, and practice in adverse conditions, you may be able to develop the skills necessary for such shooting.

Personally, I find shooting at the plate a great challenge, and get great satisfaction from consistently hitting a 10 inch plate. I am also humbled by the number of misses, and as a result would not personally take shots at distances beyond which I am hitting 90% of the time.

Most shooters loath the wind. After equipment choices and selection, the best advice I can give you is to seek out high wind situations and learn how to read the wind. This is probably the most daunting challenge of the task you have set before yourself. There are wind reading classes offered by people who are uncannily good at it. It is on my to do list, and perhaps it would be something you might benefit from.
 
Then shoot your 'a2 at 1000 yards. The AR are used quite successfully shooting 1000 yard service rifle matches, WITH IRONS.
Click to expand...

My AR fires 223 rather than 556. Almost the same round and both have a maximum effective range of 550m. Im certain that If I had a larger caliber AR I could make aforementioned shots in excess of 1000m. Im assuming they were utilizing larger than man-size tagets because shooting at the 500 is hard enough with iron sights, let alone twice that distance. RCO maybe?
You are absolutely correct about the fundamentals. I shoot 340+/350 every year during rifle re-qual because of them. breath and trigger control, natural point of aim, bone support, sight alignment/picture, good solid cheek weld...etc. We are talking about stationary shooting right?

A scope that corrects for cross winds? Hope it can detect wind speeds and direction at the highest trajectory point. Wind speeds 10 to 15 feet above the line of sight can be 50% faster than in the line of sight. It varies with terrain. Read post #26 in
Click to expand...

A scope can never completely correct for any kind of lateral interferance (i.e. windage). I have shot on ranges where there were TWO different wind directions. Because of the way the treeline was it casued any breeze or wind to go the length of the range then turn towards the left side about 200m from the targets. Also try shooting on MCAS Cherry Point's range with AV-8B Herriers flying next to it the whole time... talk about unpredictable windage.
Any scope, no matter how advanced, cannot predict what the windage will be like the length of the shot. The only way to judge with windage on your shot is to either take a shot and compensate by adusting your scope x amount to the L or R, or drae upon whatever experience you have and judge the windage based on driting dust/waving brush/foliage etc. However, if you're hunting (or combat), you not always afforded the opportunity of a second shot. You can always compensate for bullet drop though. Gravity is pretty consistant!

Find a range that accepts 50 BMG fire. You'll probably have to warn the RSO's and fellow shooter's on such firing ranges, that you'll be firing a 50 BMG, or something similar. You'll probably still get verbal flak from fellow surrounding shooter's, due to the muzzle blast.
Click to expand...

Lol! I've only ever been on a range up to 1200m and they consitantly had .50 BMG shooters. Being around one (and its muzzle blast) was more like seeing Chuck Norris than an annoyance. However they only fired about 30 rounds and the range patrons were advised via the PA system to don ear-pro for the duration.
If in the likey even I do get a .50 cal BMG it will probably be a Barrett. I dont know how someone would even get a bolt lodged in his neck? I watched the video and as it turns out the shooter loaded improper ammunition and was subsequently seriously injured by the chamber exploding and forcing the bolt to be driven into his shoulder. It was user error. Gotta hand it to the guy screming for towels though, for an arterial bleed such as that pressure and quick reation is a life saver. First on scene!! Oorah!
 
distance shooting

all this wonderful info,you folks share,but like my friend who is a shooter gets on me all the time for is lack of trigger time,but unfortunately I cant do like do like he ask of me,shoot everyday
I agree with him trigger time is the key to being a shooter in any situation
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top