Disappointing Incident in Gun Store

It's the clerk's responsibility to maintain control over the customer with the firearm. Usually it's as simple as saying "can I please have you point the muzzle over this way". If someone has an issue with that, they don't need to be handling a firearm and the clerk needs to retrieve the firearm to put it in its case. A lot of people coming into gun shops are new and not quite where they need to be with safety consciousness, and gentle correction will usually help steer them the right direction without scaring them off. If they won't make an effort to make a correction though, they don't need to be handling a firearm in a public place.

We were told we could refuse to show a gun to anybody we felt we should, and we could ask for a firearm back at any time if we felt somebody was not being safe. It was also our responsibility to correct them and show them where they could point the muzzle. If somebody got upset because of those rules and complained, everybody up to the store manager (and store policy beyond that) supported us rather than the customer.
 
dakota.potts said:
It's the clerk's responsibility to maintain control over the customer with the firearm. Usually it's as simple as saying "can I please have you point the muzzle over this way". If someone has an issue with that, they don't need to be handling a firearm and the clerk needs to retrieve the firearm to put it in its case.
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This. Captains1911 was 100% in the right, and the blame ultimately lies with either the clerk or management.

I work at an LGS, and part of our job is to ensure that customers don't point guns in an unsafe direction. We even have targets above the back wall for this purpose. So if the owner's wife comes out of her office and comes around the corner to see a gun pointed in her face, she will hold the employee who was with that customer responsible, as she should.

In this case, either the store didn't have a policy to prevent this from happening, or the clerk wasn't properly trained, or the clerk was trained but chose not to do their job for fear of offending the customers. Either way, management should be contacted, because it's simply NOT acceptable to have customers dry-firing at other customers. EVER.
 
It's the clerk's responsibility to maintain control over the customer with the firearm.
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Actually this might well be the best point to remember.

Let the clerk do his/her job but before he/she remind them what that job is. Asking if you can speak to the clerk pulling them to one side and politely explaining that "there is a person sweeping other customers all of the place, it is unsafe, another customer unaware that they are trying it out for size could draw a hot weapon in response and it is the clerk's job to keep the store safe. If nothing is done, there'll be terse words with the manager with fingers jabbing in the clerk's direction."

Then let the clerk deal with it.
If nothing changes: terse words with the manager.
 
I think the OP did the correct thing. A couple years ago I was in a local gun store and I overheard the owner tell a scary story. He had taken in on trade a used pistol that needed repairs. He sent it to the manufacturer for said repairs, when it came back he slipped on a price tag and put it in the display case. Next day a guy wanted to look at it. He raised it up, pulled the trigger... BANG! It came back from the factory rebuild with a round in the chamber. No one was hurt. You just never know. Treat every gun as if it is loaded, even if you check the chamber, consider it loaded.
 
In-freakin'credible! The woman and her husband might be forgiven but no excuse for the sales associate. He is supposed to know better and it's especially disturbing that he used expletives in response to your suggestion.
 
If I'm in any store, turn around and see a gun pointed at me I'm go to burn them.
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Good luck justifying that shooting. With that sense of bravado and lack of judgement, id rate YOU as a bigger danger to society then the unwitting customer that doesnt know any better

A simple couple of sentences " that gun has the potential to kill and you just pointed it at half a dozen people in here" will usually do the trick.
 
There is a very diplomatic way to handle this.

Just politely approach and say "Hello. I noticed you're pointing that gun at people. You may not be aware but that's bad etiquette and unsafe. Two of the cardinal gun rules is to always treat it as though it's loaded and never to point a gun at anyone unless you intend to shoot them. Please follow those rules. Accidents can happen, or others may think you are a threat. Thank you."
 
I like your style, leadcounsel. I'll say it again, turning off a potential asset to our sport and hobby that doesn't know any better doesn't help.

Yes, the clerk was negligent, perhaps management needed to be informed.

BUT I don't think yelling at the customer and coming off as a jerk is helpful. Do it quickly and kindly, then follow up with more direct/terse help as needed.
 
"The gun community needs to police itself" does not constitute a warrant to act like a jerk. And yet so many seem to do that - consider the response.

It makes no difference how right you are if you are immediately subjected to cursing and expletives. You are not the Gun Police, you warranted your thoughtless approach.

If that was your Boss with the power to fire you, how would you say it? Because regardless of who we think we are, we still need to deliver the message with at least as much respect as we would like to get.

No doubt we have all been reprimanded for poor muzzle control, but the ones we remember as being particularly abusive are NOT the example we should follow. Any more than be molested by a child predator is the example we should follow with our spouse. And yet, that seems to be the human condition, to act out the worst behavior we were subject to at one point in our life.

Nope, getting yelled at by your Drill Sergeant is not the prime example you should indulge in. If you get ugly looks and worse language - fail. You didn't sell the offenders on a solution, you just introduced yourself as some intrusive jerk.

If someone was about to step off the curb into traffic, would you grab them by the hair and pull them backwards onto the ground? Expect cursing if you attempt it.

That is how the words and body language of what was communicated were perceived - and the reaction is the indicator of how they received the message. You got feedback, alter your approach the next time and consider it a lesson learned.

We do need to help other shooters learn more appropriate behavior, we don't need to exercise inappropriate behavior in the process.

Try it as an exercise in etiquette - Whoa sorry, shooters don't point guns at each other. Then look in the case intently and don't give them eye contact. At least you shield others from their activity.

But nobody wants to be that kind of hero. Hmm.
 
One of the most difficult things to do as an Instructor is not instruct. Just as the OP indicates, any unsolicited intervention usually is unwelcome. If the situation were, lets say on a live range, then the whole scenario is different. Probably half the people in a GS don't know the first thing about guns but decide it would be cool to look.
 
Why don't all gun stores put targets on the wall near the ceiling or someo ther safer set-up? You know people are going to want to dry fire things, so why not provide a safe(r) direction for them to do so?
 
I think you were right, especially if they were pointing at you. You were probably much kinder than I would have been. :eek:Once the clerk engaged rather than correct the issue, I would have asked to speak with the owner or manager. In fact I would encourage you to write him a letter. I always say that employees make or break a business with customer service. Owners like to hear about their employees.

Everyone wants to be politically correct now days and not say anything that might offend.
 
Tom on the 17th made a good point....

Clerks in stores are supposed to be careful with customer service.

Clerks in gun stores should also know how to safely handle a firearm.

I think clerks in gun stores should also assume that the person on the other side of the counter may not be familiar with or be scrupulously careful with the handling.

One sentence of caution to the customer would go a long way to solving the problem. "When you handle this firearm, always point it in a safe direction away from other people."

When he hands the customer a revolver he should demonstrate how he wants it opened and closed.

Experienced firearm folks won't be offended. Folks new to firearms will be enlightened. Those individuals who get their nose out of joint should be slapped. (Kidding of course.)

Maybe even a sign on the wall that is easy for both the clerk and the customer to see.

Sometimes it is good to remind even a seasoned shooter. I have seen long time gun store people accidentally mishandle a pistol and have also accidentally done it myself. It is right embarrassing.
 
Why don't all gun stores put targets on the wall near the ceiling or someo ther safer set-up?
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You mean, ones like they already have that say things like "no loaded guns on the salesfloor," "treat every gun like it's loaded," and "no smoking?" People ignore or fail to notice them.

It ultimately comes down to the staff.
 
I was thinking more like Cabela's does. In my experience, if someone is waving a gun around the gun counter the salespeople politely request they point it at a moose head or similar thing hung up on the wall. Seems quite effective and no one seems to get offended.
One issue in stores is authority. Always seems there are a lot of people around who think they own the place, or as a secret government operator, know it all.
A sign on the wall lends the salesperson some authority.
 
C1911 said:
To be honest I'm so fed up and exhausted with this kind of crap that I'm considering just staying away from most gun stores and all gun shows in their entirety.
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That's a reasonable response.

Without chiding you, let me offer a different analysis. You were killing a few minutes by looking around in this shopkeeper's business. His poor judgement in failing to communicate a big and basic chunk of the culture to a new customer is not your or my business, literally. An equally reasonable course of action would just be to have turned around and left these people to their own errors.

Note the overlap in topic in this thread:
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=566042

lead counsel said:
There is a very diplomatic way to handle this.
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Indeed. It is difficult to overvalue courtesy.

tirod said:
"The gun community needs to police itself" does not constitute a warrant to act like a jerk.
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Indeed. This business of "community policing" is built on some dubious ideas. People who own and use firearms are not a "community", someone else who owns and uses arms is not in your or my "ranks", and having thoughts on safety and etiquette (thoughts which may be well-founded and right) doesn't itself entitle me to tell someone else what to do.

Even when we have only good intentions, problematic presentation can obscure a reasonable sentiment.
 
Some friends and I visited an LGS as we often do. Someone came in with a loaded revolver he had put the wrong ammo in and he couldn't open it. He wanted the owner to help him. He was waving that gun all around. We quickly left. Don't know how the issue was resolved with him, but we resolved our issue be leaving.
 
So, what do others see and think?
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I think that when I am in someone else's store and they are trying to sell a gun to a customer, I mind my own business. Unless the person is purposely (not carelessly, not negligently) putting me in the the sights of the gun, I don't say anything. I might leave the area; I might leave the store. Their store, their rules - my choice to stay or go. I'm obviously in the minority here, but I just don't feel a compulsion to teach gun handling safety to another person's customers.
 
I've told this before, but it fits in with this conversation.
A lady comes into the store and complains that her new revolver has too stiff a trigger and she can't pull it.
Which she proceeds to demonstrate by trying to pull the trigger as hard as she could.
While aiming the loaded revolver right at the store clerk.
Fortunately, someone standing there prevented her from succeeding.
Without a word of explanation, he just gently placed his hand over the gun to prevent the cylinder from turning.
Scary, for sure.
The clerk quickly signed her up for a safety class, on the spot.
Right after his eyeballs retreated back into his head and his heart beat returned to normal.
 
P.S.
While at the public range there was a young fellow who continually turned around to talk to his buddy behind him - while still holding the gun and sweeping everyone in its path.
The fellow at the next bench just stepped over and prevented him from doing it, again.
No muss, no bother, he just stepped up and blocked the guy from being able to turn.
And calmly explained why.
No one got mad, and the point was made.
And the miscreant didn't do that anymore.
 
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