Dillon 9 x 25 dies

S

stagpanther

New member
Just embarked down this path after reading a post about this caliber option for my Glock 20 : )

These are not cheap dies--and after reading the instructions I noticed multiple references are made to belling the mouth prior to seating. Trouble is--I don't see any mechanism for belling in the die set--though I'm totally new to dillon dies and may be missing something??
 
And the DOH of the day award goes to...me!

Just put a 10 mm case through the die and see that the resize dies puts the bell in automatically. Pretty slick, as is the spring loaded decapper. Worth the extra money even. : )

I used a once-fired 10 mm case and now see why Dillon recommends using new brass for forming (lucky I dug that up on their website)--the case mouth of the expended cartridge is likely too rough to get a good seal.

Gotta admit this 9 x 25 is a thing of beauty--isn't it? : ) I really like the idea of having a shoulder for extra headspace support in a pistol chamber, too.

 
With handloads, the 9x19mm cartridge can make more recoil than the G20 slide mass and the maximum practical double recoil spring assembly that will fit in a G20 could deal with.

Why would you need a 9x25 Dillon?

http://thefiringline.com/forums/atta...3&d=1410367837
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File Type: jpg Glock 20 recoil spring assembly guide rod s 9-9-2014.jpg (67.0 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Home made guide rod Glock 20 9-8-2014.jpg (59.2 KB, 0 views)
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a regular 9 x 19 generates more recoil than a 10mm (what the Glock 20 is built for)? How's that?

Anyway--when I first got my 20 I modified most everything for better trigger-pull etc. I also added a solid one-piece captured spring stainless guide rod for which I have the full range of weights from wolf. Incidentally, when I called wolf to talk about their barrel, they informed me it doesn't need anything special in terms of extra pound springs over the stock Glock.

PS--I do like your assembly tho ; )
 
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It simply strikes me as a very intriguing cartridge--enough so I'm willing to try it out. I have no competition aspirations so that's irrelevant to me. I like fooling with hand-loading to see if I can make something I can shoot well--so why not? I figure it can't be any worse than my full-house 10mm, 41 and 44 mag loads. : ) I have read people don't like the blast report though.
 
Stag, the bell is on the powder thru die on all Dillon presses.

9x19, even hand loaded, cannot get anywhere near a 10mm. The case capacity and powder density/burn rate limits all calibers, so sticking a 9mm on the end of a 10mm, ie, 9x25, is kick butt for 125gr bullets. It can throw them to over 1,700fps. My G31 in .357SIG can go to about 1,580fps with 125s, but no 9x19 on the planet can touch that. Plus a 9mm hole in a G20 conversion barrel has an extra .022" of wall. And if you stick a 90 grain Steel Challenge bullet on the 10mm, it can reach over 2,100fps! For a short while in USPSA it was one of the guns for Open 9 Major, when the floor was 175 (no 9x19 could ever make that), some tried 9x21's and blew them up, including me, but 9x23's Winchesters were ok at 180. It faded from competition when the floor was dropped to 165, some guys still run 38SuperComp, but the brass is so expensive.

Stick a dot on your G20 and you got yourself a long range varmit blaster. Go with a 3 MOA for hunting. I used to run a 22lb spring in my G20, GlockMeister has rod/spring combo's up to 24lbs. They use ISMI flat wound springs. Make sure to use some Permatex # 2 on the threads other the bolt will work loose under recoil and become un-captured.

http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockme...or-G20_21-GLOCK-Models/productinfo/GMSSR20CS/
 
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Stag, the bell is on the powder thru die on all Dillon presses.

9x19, even hand loaded, cannot get anywhere near a 10mm. The case capacity and powder density/burn rate limits all calibers, so sticking a 9mm on the end of a 10mm, ie, 9x25, is kick butt for 125gr bullets. It can throw them to over 1,700fps. My G31 in .357SIG can go to about 1,580fps with 125s, but no 9x19 on the planet can touch that. Plus a 9mm hole in a G20 conversion barrel has an extra .022" of wall. And if you stick a 90 grain Steel Challenge bullet on the 10mm, it can reach over 2,100fps! For a short while in USPSA it was one of the guns for Open 9 Major, when the floor was 175 (no 9x19 could ever make that), some tried 9x21's and blew them up, including me, but 9x23's Winchesters were ok at 180. It faded from competition when the floor was dropped to 165, some guys still run 38SuperComp, but the brass is so expensive.

Stick a dot on your G20 and you got yourself a long range varmit blaster. Go with a 3 MOA for hunting. I used to run a 22lb spring in my G20, GlockMeister has rod/spring combo's up to 24lbs. They use ISMI flat wound springs. Make sure to use some Permatex # 2 on the threads other the bolt will work loose under recoil and become un-captured.

http://www.glockmeister.com/Glockmei...nfo/GMSSR20CS/
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Last edited by 9x45; Today at 03:07 PM.
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Great comments! I'm guessing the post about 9 x 19 really meant 9 x 25--but even then I don't think it's going to exceed a "hot Bren+ load" in 10mm. Also, the Dillon 9 x 25 does in fact bell through their resize die--they just leave that out in the description.

I talked to Wolf again this morning to make sure I wasn't imagining things in regards to setting the main spring to around the 20's stock 17#. Their response was "We developed the barrel in-house, and we shoot it a lot ourselves. We have never had one single issue with operating our 9 x 25 barrel at that pressure setting out of a 20." So there you have it. I alreadt have a wide range of springs for the 20 so I'm not too worried about it--like any new cartridge I'll just have to see what works best.

I just LOVE the looks of the 9 x 25 case! lol
 
Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Feynman
..if I could explain it to the average person, it wouldn't have been worth the Nobel prize. - Feynman
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hm
 
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I feel like I am an expert on the theoretical maximum power that can be produced with the 25acp, 32acp, 380, 9x19, 9x23, 40sw, 10mm, and 45acp.
My ignorance is just hard to share.
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The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books."
"Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist.
Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?
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Let's forget about the ignorance (and sarcasm) stuff--my question was a genuine one--how does the recoil of a 9 x 19 or a 9 x 25 exceed the capabilities of a Glock 20? I admit I have zero experience with the dillon cartridge--so I'm just asking for information--not trying to get into a "you're wrong cause lots of other people said so firefight." I have no ego stake in this--just interested in seeing what is possible with a new-to-me cartridge.

So there you have it--I admit I'm the ignorant one. : )
 
Ok, Clark, you 'feel' like an expert on theoretical maximum loads. That would suggest you have access to equipment to measure pressure, either piezzo electric or copper slug crush barrels. Alot of us have our under graduate degrees in the sciences, I have happen to be engineering. So share your 9x19 load data that generates more energy than a 10mm. Head stamp used, bullet brand, type, weight, primer brand, powder type, charge weight, OAL, and chrono results.
 
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond or not covered by currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
 
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Step, what press are you loading on? I've never seen a re-size die that could bell also, the bell would be a larger diameter than the neck. I mean the .357SIG is basically a kinda of short 9x25 and it bells on the powder thru die on my old 550.

Here's some good load data, you can see how close we used to run to the floor back then....

image37160.jpg
 
Clark, first of all a G19 has an OEM recoil spring weight of 18lbs. I've been shooting competition and reloading since 1967, and have never heard of such a method to compare felt recoil or generated energy. You have no chrono data, which is the first thing, and very few shooters have access to pressure data, so I have no idea what all this 48 lb spring business is about. It doesn't mean anything. I have shot all the Glocks I ever owned, with a "closed palm" method, used in close quarters, to prevent the slide from retracting on contact, from 9mm, 40S&W, .357SIG, .45acp and 10mm, you could consider that an infinitely large spring mass, and it doesn't say anything about loads.

So do you think your 9mm load (sans chrono data) has more energy than my 35 Rem load in a Thompson Center Contender? You could consider that a, oh I don't know, a one thousand lb spring.. I mean it's only a 158 grain bullet going 2,200 fps, course it's setting on top of 39 grains of IMR 4895 versus your 11 grains of Power Pistol. I don't think you could get a 158 gr bullet on top of 11 grains at 1.170" OAL.

Funny, I used to run 230 grains at 1,150fps in my G20 and it's got way,way more juice than any 9mm major load, and our issue ammo is a 127 grain WinSXT going 1,250fps, +P+

Tell you one thing though, exceed the case pressure and it will KaBoom. You must be trying to do that.....
 
Wow, almost forgot the obvious!!!! Empirical data, that is, real life. DOH, how are all the shooters out there running 9x25's in the G20's getting away with it??? This cartridge wasn't born yesterday....
 
Step, what press are you loading on? I've never seen a re-size die that could bell also, the bell would be a larger diameter than the neck. I mean the .357SIG is basically a kinda of short 9x25 and it bells on the powder thru die on my old 550.

Here's some good load data, you can see how close we used to run to the floor back then....
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Well--first things first--I just tried a trial run of seating a bullet in the 9 x 25 resized case from a once-fired 10mm case that had first gone through a 10mm press just to be sure it was back to stock 10mm measure. In a word--I don't see how at all these dies work!

I pulled the stem out the Dillon die and the expander measures only .327--so the neck ID of the brass I've pulled is .330--not even close to being able to take a .355 bullet. Making matters worse--there is not full case support in any of the dies--which in my book translates to lots of crushed cases.

What am I missing here??

BTW--the resize die does put a slight bell in the mouth--I thought at first it might be some kind of deformity from maybe too long a case--but all the measurements other than those of the neck are pretty much on where they should be.

PS--thanks for the link to load data.
PSS--all I got was a picture of something that looks like a Trump torture device. : )

PSSS: well, I just figured out from googling that the flare at the case mouth I'm seeing is onltt there to get the seperate expander on the powder fill from a dillon press going--which of course I don't have since I don't have a dillon press. Nice of them to not mention it works only with their presses. yup--I feel stupid.:mad:
 
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Well--I guess I stepped into that one without knowing what I was getting into--but is consistent with my habit of learning things the hard way. LOL

Looks like I'm going to have to pay for custom dies. :(
 
Step, you don't need custom dies. All 3 die pistol sets are resize/deprime, seat and crimp (de-bell). The less common the die, the more expensive. But what press are you using? single stage, turret, auto progressive, manual progressive?

9x25's are the same price as .357SIG's, but 9mm's are typically less than $60.
 
Step, you don't need custom dies. All 3 die pistol sets are resize/deprime, seat and crimp (de-bell). The less common the die, the more expensive. But what press are you using? single stage, turret, auto progressive, manual progressive?

9x25's are the same price as .357SIG's, but 9mm's are typically less than $60.
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I've used a single-stage Lee manual for over 10 years--as low and basic as it gets--but it does the job, so why not, right? : )

I know that not starting out with annealed virgin 10 mm might be part of the problem--but I still don't see how these dies won't result in consistency issues lacking full case support. I also lubed the cases with one-shot.
 
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