Hello everyone. New to the forum so please excuse me if the question has been asked already. I am in the process of buying and new rifle. I have narrowed my search down to 4 rifles. 2 in 308 and 2 in 7mm rem mag. My dilema is this in my train of thought inside of 400 yds. there is nothing i can shoot with the 7mm that i shouldnt be able to shoot with the 308. Any input would be much appreciated if my way of thinking.
Dilemma
- Thread starter Jason3815
- Start date
Welcome to the forum Jason. The most important question is to ask, in earnest, what you will use the rifle for. Are you shooting deer within 200-300 yards? Elk? Bear!? Obviously if you are trying to harvest tougher game then a heavier caliber is preferred. That being said, there have been plenty of elk and bear taken with a .308. Then there is range. Are you going to be shooting at bighorns in the Rockies from one side of a mountain to another? The higher BC, better energy retention of the 7mag will serve you well.
Next question will you be carrying this rifle? Is it a range toy and the furthest you carry it will be 100 feet to the firing line? Or 1/4 mile to a tree stand for deer hunting? Or are you trekking out in the Rockies to harvest a bighorn? If you NEED a light rifle, the lighter caliber begins to look more appealing. I've had a sub 8lb 7 mag rifle, and it was not fun to shoot. Also .308 has less of a velocity loss out of shorter barrels than 7mag, so it's easier to get to that lighter weight rifle and maintain velocity without a straight up pencil barrel.
Next is a question of barrel life. If you want to spend a good bit of time on the range with it, .308 is much more barrel life friendly. You can see slight accuracy degradation from throat erosion in as little as 700 rounds from a 7mag with a sporter barrel. .308 will often shoot several thousand before any accuracy degradation can be observed.
These are things to think about, and really only you can answer the question. If you are just starting out, and you aren't upgrading to hunt grizzly's in Alaska, the .308 will likely serve you well.
Next question will you be carrying this rifle? Is it a range toy and the furthest you carry it will be 100 feet to the firing line? Or 1/4 mile to a tree stand for deer hunting? Or are you trekking out in the Rockies to harvest a bighorn? If you NEED a light rifle, the lighter caliber begins to look more appealing. I've had a sub 8lb 7 mag rifle, and it was not fun to shoot. Also .308 has less of a velocity loss out of shorter barrels than 7mag, so it's easier to get to that lighter weight rifle and maintain velocity without a straight up pencil barrel.
Next is a question of barrel life. If you want to spend a good bit of time on the range with it, .308 is much more barrel life friendly. You can see slight accuracy degradation from throat erosion in as little as 700 rounds from a 7mag with a sporter barrel. .308 will often shoot several thousand before any accuracy degradation can be observed.
These are things to think about, and really only you can answer the question. If you are just starting out, and you aren't upgrading to hunt grizzly's in Alaska, the .308 will likely serve you well.
Thank you Whisky. No I am not new to shooting by any means although i do understand the questioning. I had a 7mm but due to circumstances i had to get rid of it. so i am now in the process of getting a new one. like i said i have narrowed it down to 4. My problem is is that i loved the 7mm pill but just didnt know if it was really worth the extra cost. i have everything i need to start reloading but am still in the process of learning. i am also getting ready to move to Alaska but it still goes back to my line of thinking that inside of 400 yds i should be good with a 308. i do plan on using this rifle for both hunting and range. The only way i know to become proficient with any weapon is to shoot it.
Jason, I join 5Whiskey in welcoming you to The Firing Line. I've been a member for 11 years and I assure you that this forum can provide you valuable, important and perhaps even life saving information. My wife and I visited Alaska on a recent vacation - I suspect you will really like Alaska. I am reloader and, in fact, have never hunted with a factory load. Based on your second post I recommend a .308. I assume you want a bolt action rifle but don't know what rifles you are considering. A little more information from you would help forum members offer good advice. Enjoy your new home!
Thank you left eye . The 4 rifles I am looking at are. In 308 the Remington 700 R5 and the Winchester Coyote light. In 77mm Rem Mag they are the Remington Sendero or the Winchester CDL SF. I feel these are my best options in cost, feel and although it really shouldn't matter apperance. I've had a lot of friends tell me I need to go with a 300 win mag or 338 because of were I am planing on moving to but it is mostly because they just like the ability to say my gun is bigger than yours and I really don't care about that. Also both 308's have 24" barrels and both 7mm's have 26" barrels.
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Anymore I consider a 308 to be a BIG gun. The big 1000+ lb bear in Alaska are the only game animal in North America that I'd give a 2nd thought to hunting with a 308. And I'd just as soon hunt them with a properly loaded 308 as a 300 magnum.
The only thing the 28 and 30 caliber magnums offer you is longer effective range. A 308 is a 400-500 yard elk rifle, deer size game a bit farther. The magnums could add 100-200 yards to that, but most people aren't good enough to shoot that far.
But to be honest, you are looking at target rifles, not hunting rifles. The 308 is a great round, but it doesn't need to be in a heavy long barreled rifle that has to be lugged around in the mountains. For hunting I'd be looking at something that would weigh no more than 8 lbs including optics and mounts. My personal 308's are between 6 lbs to 7 1/4 lbs including optics and mounts.
The only thing the 28 and 30 caliber magnums offer you is longer effective range. A 308 is a 400-500 yard elk rifle, deer size game a bit farther. The magnums could add 100-200 yards to that, but most people aren't good enough to shoot that far.
But to be honest, you are looking at target rifles, not hunting rifles. The 308 is a great round, but it doesn't need to be in a heavy long barreled rifle that has to be lugged around in the mountains. For hunting I'd be looking at something that would weigh no more than 8 lbs including optics and mounts. My personal 308's are between 6 lbs to 7 1/4 lbs including optics and mounts.
Itsa Bughunt
New member
I'd suggest looking at Savage. I recently got a Savage Axis 2 XP in .308 for about $450 and I like it a lot. It comes with a Weaver scope. Not a great scope, but it's fine for target practice.
PHARMACYJOE
Inactive
6.5 creedmore
I own and have hunted with both .308 and 7mm Rem mag so I can make a fair comparison.
A .308 can be 1-1.5# lighter than a similar model 7mag and likely have 2" less barrel length.
308 ammo is cheaper, marginally more selections, and considerably less recoil than 7mm RM
A .308 w/22" barrel will do the same job on game up to 500# as the 7mmRM up to 275-300 yards
On the other hand, from 300-400 yards the 7mmRM wins on energy and flatter trajectory. Do you want to get the snot kicked out of you every time you shoot under 300 yards in order to have that extra energy you MIGHT need for that occasional 350 yard opportunity?
Don't get me wrong, I like the 7mmRM. I'm taking mine elk hunting this fall BUT I doubt I'll shoot 20-30 rounds through it in prep for that use. After the elk hunt, it goes back in the case until the next(last fired about a decade ago). The rest of my hunting is done with lighter recoiling rifles(25/06 mostly).
A .308 can be 1-1.5# lighter than a similar model 7mag and likely have 2" less barrel length.
308 ammo is cheaper, marginally more selections, and considerably less recoil than 7mm RM
A .308 w/22" barrel will do the same job on game up to 500# as the 7mmRM up to 275-300 yards
On the other hand, from 300-400 yards the 7mmRM wins on energy and flatter trajectory. Do you want to get the snot kicked out of you every time you shoot under 300 yards in order to have that extra energy you MIGHT need for that occasional 350 yard opportunity?
Don't get me wrong, I like the 7mmRM. I'm taking mine elk hunting this fall BUT I doubt I'll shoot 20-30 rounds through it in prep for that use. After the elk hunt, it goes back in the case until the next(last fired about a decade ago). The rest of my hunting is done with lighter recoiling rifles(25/06 mostly).
Just curious, why those particular rifles? You mention "inside 400 yards" but the rifles you list are all more LR suited, heavy barrel target/varmint types, none of which I would want to tote around hunting on foot for any length of time.
What is your intended use for this?
On edit: and I agree with your assessment, if you make a good hit with either inside 400 yards, the animal will not know the difference.
What is your intended use for this?
On edit: and I agree with your assessment, if you make a good hit with either inside 400 yards, the animal will not know the difference.
Don Fischer
New member
7mm Rem mag or a 308? Sounds like apples and orange's to me!I had a 7mm Rem years ago I've also had several 308's. Two different performer's for me.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Based on a mix of observation and of reading for many years:
Unless 400 to 500 yards is a regularly expected distance in hunting, I'd go with the .308. Inside of 400 yards it should quite satisfactory on such as elk or smaller. Note that the stories of moose hunts tell of shots mostly within 100 yards and with such cartridges as the .303 British.
So, lower recoil than the 7Mag and lower ammo cost whether factory or reloads.
Unless 400 to 500 yards is a regularly expected distance in hunting, I'd go with the .308. Inside of 400 yards it should quite satisfactory on such as elk or smaller. Note that the stories of moose hunts tell of shots mostly within 100 yards and with such cartridges as the .303 British.
So, lower recoil than the 7Mag and lower ammo cost whether factory or reloads.
There's no game in North America that needs a magnum of any kind to kill with one, well placed, shot. Including big bears.
However, the more important issue is how much experience do you have shooting at 400 yards on game? Can you hit a 9" pie plate, every time, at 400 yards? 9" is the approximate diameter of the kill zone on most large game, despite the difference in size.
The other issue is the ballistics. A factory 165 grain .308(will kill any game in North America) sighted in 2" high at 100 yards will drop 25" at 400. A 150 grain 7mm Mag sighted in 1.4" high at 100 will drop 19.2" at 400. Both of 'em drop like bricks between 300 and 400. Can you judge distances well enough to make a shot that far away? And hit the pie plate?
Felt recoil out of either assuming the same rifle, is close to the same. Bullet velocity matters of course. A 165 at 2700 fps out of a 7.5 pound rifle recoils with 18.1 ft-lbs. A 7mm 150 at 3100 fps out of an 8.5 pound rifle recoils with 19.2 ft-lbs. You'll notice the muzzle blast and recoil of the 7mm but probably not so much the .308.
"...cartridges as the .303 British..." And the 6.5 x 55. Both have been killing great big beasties with no fuss for eons. Canadian Rangers used the .303 to hunt and otherwise deal with critters like Nanuck the polar bear.
However, the more important issue is how much experience do you have shooting at 400 yards on game? Can you hit a 9" pie plate, every time, at 400 yards? 9" is the approximate diameter of the kill zone on most large game, despite the difference in size.
The other issue is the ballistics. A factory 165 grain .308(will kill any game in North America) sighted in 2" high at 100 yards will drop 25" at 400. A 150 grain 7mm Mag sighted in 1.4" high at 100 will drop 19.2" at 400. Both of 'em drop like bricks between 300 and 400. Can you judge distances well enough to make a shot that far away? And hit the pie plate?
Felt recoil out of either assuming the same rifle, is close to the same. Bullet velocity matters of course. A 165 at 2700 fps out of a 7.5 pound rifle recoils with 18.1 ft-lbs. A 7mm 150 at 3100 fps out of an 8.5 pound rifle recoils with 19.2 ft-lbs. You'll notice the muzzle blast and recoil of the 7mm but probably not so much the .308.
"...cartridges as the .303 British..." And the 6.5 x 55. Both have been killing great big beasties with no fuss for eons. Canadian Rangers used the .303 to hunt and otherwise deal with critters like Nanuck the polar bear.
Pathfinder45
New member
With the 7mm magnum you will sacrifice magazine capacity when you could just go with a 270 Winchester or 30-'06 that will do the same jobs. Normally, I recommend the 270; but with Alaska in the equation, well, you just can't go wrong with the 30-'06. It does a better job with heavy bullets than the 308. Also consider the model 70 Winchester.
Ok going to try and reply to everyone. thank you all for the responses. Emcon5 I chose the particular rifles on my list from reviews, research and just visually those where the ones i liked. I say inside 400 yds. because inside that I dont believe there is nothing i can shoot with the 7mm i cant shoot with the 308. My intended use is primary use hunting rifle and target rifle. T. O'Heir I am not a competition shooter but i was raised on a farm and been shooting as long as i can remember. i was in the Army for 10 years 6 of witch i spent Special Forces and went threw Sniper school. Over the years i have taken several deer at 400+yards with the 7mm i had.
bamaranger
New member
jmr's American Predator
Jmr40 frequently posts a pic of his Ruger American Predator with short barrel and tidy scope......and he may have produced the ideal GP rifle. Affordable, both initially and ammo cost, wide selection of ammo, accurate, portable, I may well have to have one myself.
Jmr40, post your pic....Jason, go buy one! (and a tidy, reliable scope)
Jmr40 frequently posts a pic of his Ruger American Predator with short barrel and tidy scope......and he may have produced the ideal GP rifle. Affordable, both initially and ammo cost, wide selection of ammo, accurate, portable, I may well have to have one myself.
Jmr40, post your pic....Jason, go buy one! (and a tidy, reliable scope)
I don't know where people get the idea that you have to limit your 308 hunting to 400 yards. With proper bullet they are good to 750 yards.
This 165 Accrubond was recovered from a 6X elk my son shot at about 630 something.
I have both 7mm RM and 308s, there is nothing the 7mm will do that the 308 wont, except make more noise, kick more, and cost more money to shoot.
How far you shoot is up the to the shooter, not the gun.
This 165 Accrubond was recovered from a 6X elk my son shot at about 630 something.
I have both 7mm RM and 308s, there is nothing the 7mm will do that the 308 wont, except make more noise, kick more, and cost more money to shoot.
How far you shoot is up the to the shooter, not the gun.
but if you have options a .270 win mag will carry out to and beyond 400 yards fairly well, I have seen one take a Coyote at over 500 yards