different test for mouse gun

Recall a guy stabbed in the heart in front of a New York City restaurant, he collapsed and died quickly, matter of seconds. The attacker was an ex-con out of jail barely a week.

In South Carolina, recall a guy shot in the heart (with a 22 mousegun) at a distance of about 10 feet, he collapsed almost immediately and died, the perp is doing life.

Do not recall seeing a lot of blood in either homicide.

Don’t think I’d last long after taking a bullet or a blade thru my heart.
 
I carry an NAA Black Widow in .22 lr. The thing is so small I forget it's there. That means I carry it everywhere. I can also train with it often as .22 lr is super cheap. Shot placement is the key to ALL handgun calibers being effective. No matter what you get, grab a .22 trainer. You will be glad you did.
 
Yeah Slueth some folks just don't get it. It's usually pretty simple the smaller the caliber the less chances you have of stopping an attack. yeah yeah they may die hours later as I have seen MANY times but how is that going to help you if they were still able to carry out an assult on you. Usually with handguns the bigger bullet will always STOP an attack better/quicker than the smaller bullet and that is the name of the game. You shoot to STOP not to kill understand what this means one has nothing to do with the other. Trauma/pain stops people not blood loss. Anyhow, I still love mouseguns there just too cool.




Argggggggggg - IT'S NOT JUST PENETRATION!

If it was, we could all just carry that .22 WRM pistol with FMJ and be done with it. It is shot placement and 'the size of the hole" - which you obtain by either bullet diameter or expansion.

You know, more warm blood out, more cold air in.

That's why generally, most people accept a performance "floor" of .38 Spl/9mm. Anything less has a poor record of actually stopping the fight before the good guys get hurt or killed.

The bad side about the lessor calibers is - they make you THINK you are armed.
 
Dunno, guys. Plenty of news accounts and police reports reflect a reality that upon being shot, occasionally several times, a significant number of attackers and home intruders simply run away.

If you are shooting to STOP - as Hairbag suggests - then having your attacker run away is as good as any other definition of the word "Stop".

It's pretty important to define terms in discussions such as these.

For example, how does the OP define the term "pocket gun"??

The Kahr PM-9 is about as large a firearm as I would consider a "pocket gun", but that's the point - it's a subjective term.

Empirically speaking, small caliber handguns are responsible for a large number of fatalities each year in this country... It's a fallacy to pronounce them inadequate unless you start defining terms more specifically.

IMHO. YMMV.
 
You guys make very good points. I did months of research before I bought the Black Widow. What I found out is simple: Stopping power is a myth. The one shot stop has much more to do with bullet placement than slug size or powder charge. So, I picked a gun that let's me practice often as my edc.

That said, I keep a loaded .45 next to my bed and in my home office desk.
 
fired one of those s&w bodyguard 380's today. surprisingly accurate, and decent trigger pull. don't like lasers, wish they left it off. rather have a cheaper price, than a cheapie laser i would never use lol


i'm really not crazy about pocket guns, but i'd probably get that bodyguard if i wanted one. nice gun. s&w's cust serv is the bomb too :)
 
Recall a guy stabbed in the heart in front of a New York City restaurant, he collapsed and died quickly, matter of seconds. The attacker was an ex-con out of jail barely a week.
Click to expand...


according to Dr. Fackler (one of the world's foremost wound ballistic experts, and consultant to the FBI on said matters), even if a bullet totally obliterates an assailants heart, he may still have up to 15 seconds to continue his assault.
 
On "mousegun";

The other day I was talking to a couple of younger co-workers who were going on about their "muscle cars" I asked 'em what cars they had. One had an Acura the other something else Japanese. Politely I explained that "muscle cars" came outa Detroit in the 70s and early 80s. They had 8 cylinder engines, they had carburators, they drank gasoline by the barrel and leaked oil, and they had power. Even though their vehicle may be fast and boast 300 horses it ain't a "Muscle car".

So when I say that the 38Spl. the 9mm, the 45acp and more are not mouse gun calibers, even when they are in small guns, I know that they same way I know muscle cars came from Detroit.

tipoc
 
On "mousegun";

The other day I was talking to a couple of younger co-workers who were going on about their "muscle cars" I asked 'em what cars they had. One had an Acura the other something else Japanese. Politely I explained that "muscle cars" came outa Detroit in the 60s and early 70s. They had 8 cylinder engines, they had carburators, they drank gasoline by the barrel and leaked oil, and they had power. Even though their vehicle may be fast and boast 300 horses it ain't a "Muscle car".

So when I say that the 38Spl. the 9mm, the 45acp and more are not mouse gun calibers, even when they are in small guns, I know that they same way I know muscle cars came from Detroit.

tipoc
Click to expand...

I made one small alteration to your word's.

#48

according to Dr. Fackler (one of the world's foremost wound ballistic experts, and consultant to the FBI on said matters), even if a bullet totally obliterates an assailants heart, he may still have up to 15 seconds to continue his assault.
Click to expand...

You might also win the Lottery.


#44

a significant number of attackers and home intruders simply run away.

If you are shooting to STOP - as Hairbag suggests - then having your attacker run away is as good as any other definition of the word "Stop".

but that's the point - it's a subjective term.
Click to expand...

A cap gun will work!


For example, how does the OP define the term "pocket gun"??
Click to expand...

I don't know, I'm retarded.

A mouse, is a mouse, is a mouse gun.:D I carry a S&W 380 Airweight revolver. Yes, I just trolled.:eek:
 
If that is the biggest chunk of him I can see, that's where I will start shooting him. Or in the hand, foot, ear, etc. My hope is, it will cause him to:
a) Run Away
b) Expose something more vital

If some bigger part of him is visible, I'll shoot him there. My preferred point of aim is center of mass, but if I can't see it (and it is behind hard cover), I'll take what I can get.
 
This is my Mousegun
mousegun.jpg
 
I did an ammo test yesterday.

Between my son and I, we have a Beretta Minx (.22 Short), Ruger MKII .22 LR, S&W 380, and three 9MMs. With all the talk about the 380 being a mouse gun, and the 9MM not having the knock-down power for self-defense, we decided to run a couple of tests on all of them. My primary interest was determining the penetration ability…could the bullet go through a rib bone or would it get stopped? Here is the un-scientific results from 6 yards:

.22 Short: I used a high-velocity (1040fps) Penetration in 2 X 4 approx. 1 to 1 1/2 "

.2LR: Standard velocity: Went through a 2X4 Test 1 and almost through in Test 2

380: The .380 went through ¾ of a 4 X 4. We shot both FMJ and HP, and they both penetrated approximately 3” of solid wood. The HP did not expand, and I’m guessing that the density of the wood prevented the mushroom effect. It seems to me that a 3” penetration into solid wood is more than adequate to get through the ribs.

9MM: On the first test, the 9MM blew through a 4 X 4, two 2 X 4s, but in the next test, it was just exiting from the 4X4. Different gun with a different length barrel. It was a FMJ, standard load.

No question for me now, both the 380 and 9MM will do the job.
 
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