Different 45ACP ammo-never seen before

H

hk45ctp30

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I've been shooting 45ACP for about 50 years and reloading it also. I work part time at a large gun shop in New Mexico. Last night I was looking at the new ammo that had come in to see if I wanted any.

I noticed some Federal 45ACP 230 gr. FMJ ammo in purple colored boxes. It was priced about $20 a box for 50 rounds. I looked at the stuff and it's brass cased and looks like really good ammo to shoot in my HK45CT for practice.

One of the guys asked me if I noticed the primers. I said no and went and looked. The rounds are loaded with small pistol primers instead of large, and the brass is machined for small primers. I have never seen 45ACP ammo that has used small primers.

One of the guys has shot some and said they feel the same as regular 45ACP rounds, but we were curious as to whether you could reload these with small pistol primers or if they are like Blazer ammo and it's one shot and you're done.

Anyone have any experience with these types of rounds and know whether they can be reloaded or not? I'd like to be able to give my customers who buy them a reliable answer on reloading them. Thanks for the help!
 
Small pistol primers are becoming more and more common in 45 ACP. They reload just like LPP cases, other than having to use a SPP of course. Since you've been reloading so long, you probably haven't bought much factory ammo over the past few years or you might have come across it. Fiocchi, Federal, Blazer Brass, WinClean, etc.
 
I have both SP and LP .45 ACP brass. The only issue I have is keeping it sorted.

Why do you say Blazer is shoot once and toss?
 
Why do you say Blazer is shoot once and toss?
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There's two kinds of Blazer ammo - brass and aluminum cased. The brass is reloadable, the aluminum cases are not, you shoot them and throw away the casings.
 
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Why do you say Blazer is shoot once and toss?

There't two kinds of Blazer ammo - brass and aluminum cased. he brass is reloadable, the aluminum cases are not.
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I have talked with an individual who has successfully loaded Blazer aluminum cases, but he limits their use to one reloading. The reason he reloads them is because the range where he shoots IDPA matches at does not allow their contestants to gather their spent casings. He reloads the aluminum casings for use only at this facility and keeps his brass casings for practice where he can pick them up.

The main difficulty with reloading Blazer aluminum cases is that they are Berdan primed and as such require special equipment to de-prime. When sizing a Berdan primed case, the decapping pin must be removed because it will either prevent the case from going all the way into the die or break otherwise. The individual that I know uses a device he rigged up which utilizes water pressure to force the old primer out, but it really seems like a lot of extra work to me.
 
I've been finding SPP .45 ACP brass as range pickups. Not many, but enough that I'm putting them in a zipper bag and when I get 100 or so, I'll load them all. Interestingly, I don't seem to notice the primer size until I'm putting in new primers then one of the small primer brass will find its way into the queue.

They're becoming more common. Load and use them as usual. Bullseye isn't hard to light.
 
Yeah Federal's cheap stuff and CCI Blazer Brass are using small primers now.

I shoot range pick-up ammo, and it is not common enough to be worth sorting and keeping yet.

I think it is kind of sad. It seems like another cost-cutting measure that reduces quality in some way. After all, if small primers were just as good, why didn't they use them from the getgo?
 
After all, if small primers were just as good, why didn't they use them from the getgo?
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Maybe because of the powders available at the time? Maybe because it's parent cartridge used a large primer? Maybe the primers at the time weren't up to the job? Whatever it is, it has proved to be of no real use today.
 
After all, if small primers were just as good, why didn't they use them from the getgo?
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I have no way of proving this, but I suspect that when the .45 ACP cartridge was developed, there was a good possibility that it would be a government cartridge. Government armories used large primers. If you look closely at .45 ACP brass, it is remarkably similar to .30-06 brass. Using one size primer could be a money-saving measure.

When the .357 magnum was developed, some folks made the brass with large primers. I have seen LPP .357 brass. Some years ago they standardized on SPP for the cartridge, but I've seen it both ways.
 
I have no way of proving this, but I suspect that when the .45 ACP cartridge was developed, there was a good possibility that it would be a government cartridge. Government armories used large primers.
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Interesting analysis. JM Browning developed the .45 ACP specifically because of a military requirement that their handgun rounds be .45 caliber. I've seen this story over and over again.
 
If you come across some old militery 45 cases you might find some .204" primers which were made by Frankford Arsenal. I have no idea why they made that size. .175" and .210" are the standard sizes now.
 
The answer is that the old priming compounds tended to be much less "hot" than modern primers, and it was thought that more priming compound was needed to fire the larger smokeless powder charges, hence the larger primers for bigger calibers. That was not always done, though. I have some F.A. .45 M1909 rounds from 1913 that are loaded with small primers.

The Blazer ammo was developed with aluminum cases as a way to save money for those who do not reload, mainly law enforcement agencies. But aluminum is much less ductile than brass and tends to crack if resized. So, to protect themselves from complaints about reloading problems, CCI made the cartridges non-reloadable. Naturally, some folks took that as a challenge and figured out a way to reload the aluminum cases anyway.

Jim
 
The small primers in .45 ammo have been discussed at length on other sites. Winchester, for example, uses small pistol primers in their 'NT' (Non-Toxic) line. It has been reported (but, IIRC, not verified) that Federal is using the SPP exclusively in the generic ammo they produce for Wal-Mart. If anyone has bought Federal in .45 Auto from any source other than Wal-Mart and found small pistols primers, I'd very much like to know about it.
 
Well, it seems I have "enough" .45acp w/ lp, BUT, I will pick up domestic brass w/sp, as this is going to be a change of procedure I think. As the song says, Pickin' up the pieces. We'll be fine.
 
I tried reloading the Blazer aluminum 45 case just for the heck of it. No issues getting everything seated, sized etc. The case split after the second firing and it was the end of the experiment.
 
If you come across some old militery 45 cases you might find some .204" primers which were made by Frankford Arsenal. I have no idea why they made that size.
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So they could not interchange rifle and pistol primers.
A ruptured pistol primer in a rifle caliber or a misfiring rifle primer in a pistol caliber would be a fine thing to turn up in a hot corner. As Mr Browning said the time they sent him a case of .30-06 for machine gun testing and he found one .30-40 Krag in the box.
 
What difference does it make in reloading (this is a general reloading question, I guess) between pistol primers and rifle primers? Are rifle primers "hotter?" Are there pistol and revolver cartridges or loads that call for rifle primers?
 
Bluetrain Rifle primers are much harder than pistol primers. In handguns they are normally only used in special applications like Small Rifle Magnum Primers are used in the 454 Casull. My Lyman Book shows one loads rated at 53,800 CUP.
In comparison the single highest pressure load they list for a 44 Magnum is 38,200 CUP.
My guess would be that a 53,800 CUP load out of a 454 using a small pistol primer would result in a blown primer at the very least.
What Difference Does It Make: The primer heights are different on Large Rifle & Large Pistol (.120 Lg Pistol & .130 Large Rifle.) Small rifle & pistol miced the same height. Then we have the harder issue. This can be an issue with ignition, especially revolvers with trigger jobs. Rifle primers are probably hotter to ignite a larger charge also. I have heard of people using small rifle primers in handguns. If I were doing this myself say in 9mm or 40 S&W I would start low and work up with caution, paying close attention to details. You would probably not get cratering or flattened primers before you were way over pressure limits with rifle primers.


My brother ran some 45 in the Dillon case cleaner and I think he had just dumped in some media rejuvinator. Anyway we had some media sticking inside the cases of some of them. So I ended up looking inside the cases of a few hundred rounds to see if any media needed scraped out.
What I noticed was some very large flash holes in a few of the cases.

I went out and located one in my junk brass bucket.
Winchester 45 Auto
Looks to be a Large Primer Case
Flash Hole Size .125

My first thought was that it had been drilled out for Plastic Training Bullets, or Wax Bullets that used the primer only for propellant.

Has anyone else seen any like this?

If I had not been checking unprimed cases for media, I would probably have never noticed the flash hole size. I normally load a medium load with lead bullets. I have no idea if the large flash hole would have caused a problem or not. I pitched them anyway.

I have been pitching the small primer brass also. I guess I better label a jug for it, and start saving it. I pick up lots of range brass. Most comes from Wal-Mart. So far I have not been encountering it in any quantity.

See You at the Range

Bob
 
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First generation Win-Clean with lead-free priming compound had large primers with large flashholes. (Current NT = Non Toxic uses small primers which confuses a lot of reloaders.)

Early on, Winchester said they were OK to reload. Somebody posted recently that they were now trying to scare you out of reusing them. I have shot them and see no difference in velocity or accuracy within IDPA needs.
 
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