die not sizing enough, options?

Bart B. said:
All companies new brass ain't exactly the same size.

Send a few new cases to a custom die maker and he will make one for you.
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The brass will be feeding a couple guns, some of which will be semi auto. Having a custom die made is unfeasible. A small base die should be the ticket. However the set I got is bottoming out and not sizing enough. If it were just 1 bolt gun a custom die would be feasible.

Right now I'm not sure whether the issue lies with the die, gauge, or shell plate. However after having 75pcs of brass that would not chamber, due to the shoulder not being pushed back far enough, with the die screwed down to touch the shellpate made be stop and evaluate as under sized brass is a problem I never had in over 12yrs of reloading.

My l.e Wilson headspace gauge should be here today. I'm gonna post an update with some pics comparing loaded factory ammo to my sized brass in both gauges.
 
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My l.e Wilson headspace gauge should be here today. I'm gonna post an update with some pics comparing loaded factory ammo to my sized brass in both gauges.
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I would do what unclenick suggests and simply compare new brass to your sized stuff on a comparator--this should give you the quickest answer to whether or not the issue really is with the die.
 
the l.e. wilson gage doesn't address the case body...just the length
I use the other gage I posted earlier ...i know its a bit more expensive but you get to see the case in a minimum (sammi)sized chamber.
I also do 308 with small base dies ( not an M die) and have had no problem with sizing....
some of the LC brass is a bit tuff to do ...but on a single stage press (rock chucker) its not a big deal....I don't know what shell holder you use....but also the there are are under size ones out there to do exactly what you are trying to do without grinding a die.

Matt.
 
hammered54 said:
the l.e. wilson gage doesn't address the case body...just the length
I use the other gage I posted earlier ...i know its a bit more expensive but you get to see the case in a minimum (sammi)sized chamber.
I also do 308 with small base dies ( not an M die) and have had no problem with sizing....
some of the LC brass is a bit tuff to do ...but on a single stage press (rock chucker) its not a big deal....I don't know what shell holder you use....but also the there are are under size ones out there to do exactly what you are trying to do without grinding a die.

Matt.
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It is a progressive press. Hornady. Thus no shell plate options. also working the the shell plate is near impossible as it has 5 slots that I would all need to get to the same thickness.
 
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here is something I just now ran into while sizing some 7.62x51 myself.
would not go into the gauge completely...a little tap and in it went....seemed to fit the gauge good...but upon further notice it seemed at the head ( below the ejector groove ) had a small nick/bend keeping it from "plunking" ....could this be a problem your having also?
this is all Nato brass by the way.


Matt.
 
Update, Got things sorted out, bad gauge I think.

The Factory Winchester and Hornady Cartridges, both needed a light push to fully seat in the Hornady Gauge. Both were at max headspace or just below. My small base resized brass dropped in and out freely (a good sign in my opinion) but were right at max headspace as well.

I received my L.E. Wilson headspace gauge today. Granted this is intended to measure headspace and neck length but not body diameter.

With the L.W. Wilson gauge, ALL cartridges dropped in and out freely (as expected). ALL factory ammo, and my resized brass were at or just a hare above the MIN line, and well below max.

I am going to chalk this up to a gauge issue. the Hornady gauge was supposed to be cut at max SAAMI specs. I find that hard to believe. the Hornady Gauge is getting returned.

Lesson learned, don't settle for less than L.E. Wilson headspace gauges...
 
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I'd still keep an eye on your fired brass to get an idea of how hard your brass might be being worked--using the comparator is still a good idea.;)
 
glad you have this figured out.
I have and still use the wilsons I bought in the past....but Im now a true believer in the Sheridan cut away case gagues !....you see EVERYTHING.

Matt.
 
hammered54 said:
glad you have this figured out.
I have and still use the wilsons I bought in the past....but Im now a true believer in the Sheridan cut away case gagues !....you see EVERYTHING.

Matt.
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Dang it all! Those are some SEXY gauges.... gonna have to get some in the near future to compliment my Wilson headspace gauges....
 
stagpanther said:
I'd still keep an eye on your fired brass to get an idea of how hard your brass might be being worked--using the comparator is still a good idea.;)
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Don't have a comparitor. but I will be checking fired brass in the headspace gauge to see how much it is moving.

I am currently in a pickle with my calipers and have to decide what to do. I was trying to measure some stuff the other day and not getting consistent results. I started looking into having my calipers calibrated and realized they are only accurate to +/- 0.001... meaning if I measure say a 308 casings at 2.010, it could be between 2.009 to 2.011. I am looking for a better set of calipers, but precise options are limited and expensive. like I said, in a pickle.
 
All that salt and vinegar can make your eyes sting.

A lot of digital calipers have half-thousandth resolution now, but accuracy is trickier than resolution and you have to learn how to close the jaws without flexing anything. I pinch them closed between my thumb and index finger for better precision. The best thing is to have one of the micrometer calibration standards to compare to. If you but a 1-2" micrometer, it will come with a 1" standard to zero it against, or a 2-3" micrometer comes with a 2" zero standard, etc. You can practice on those standards with the calipers. Also, a dial micrometer, if it is smooth enough, will let you read between the graduations to resolve tenths of a thousandth, but it needs to be checked against a standard or an accurate pin gauge to confirm your measuring skills with it.

A set of micrometers is not an impossible expense. Amazon has several 0-4" range sets for under $100 and cdcotools.com has a 0-3" set for $58 plus shipping.
 
Unclenick said:
All that salt and vinegar can make your eyes sting.

A lot of digital calipers have half-thousandth resolution now, but accuracy is trickier than resolution and you have to learn how to close the jaws without flexing anything. I pinch them closed between my thumb and index finger for better precision. The best thing is to have one of the micrometer calibration standards to compare to. If you but a 1-2" micrometer, it will come with a 1" standard to zero it against, or a 2-3" micrometer comes with a 2" zero standard, etc. You can practice on those standards with the calipers. Also, a dial micrometer, if it is smooth enough, will let you read between the graduations to resolve tenths of a thousandth, but it needs to be checked against a standard or an accurate pin gauge to confirm your measuring skills with it.

A set of micrometers is not an impossible expense. Amazon has several 0-4" range sets for under $100 and cdcotools.com has a 0-3" set for $58 plus shipping.
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I have been considering a set of micrometers for just the reason you stated. However I have never needed a set in all the years I have been reloading and am having a hard time justifying them. I live in a big city and am looking into taking them to a place that toes calibration. I am hoping they will be able to tell me if they are off and calibrate them fore a reasonable price. Also hoping they might have a recommendation for a decent set of calipers that wont cost me $500 to get the accuracy I am looking for...
 
IME, calipers are inherently less precise than micrometers, though, with a high-grade dial type, like Mitutoyo, and practice with your technique, you can often get within about 2 tenths of a thousandth. Where micrometers are commonly used in handloading is to measure slugs to get a bore diameter down to 10ths of a thousandth, which is often needed in that application. I also use them together with a small hole transfer gauge to check chamber diameters; revolver throats in particular.
 
Shadow9mm said:
I am currently in a pickle with my calipers and have to decide what to do. I was trying to measure some stuff the other day and not getting consistent results. I started looking into having my calipers calibrated and realized they are only accurate to +/- 0.001... meaning if I measure say a 308 casings at 2.010, it could be between 2.009 to 2.011. I am looking for a better set of calipers, but precise options are limited and expensive. like I said, in a pickle.
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FYI, Mitutoyo calipers have an accuracy tolerance of ±.001in as well.
If you want to measure to the ten-thousandths, you'll need a micrometer and I suggest getting a digital one.

You can also verify the accuracy of the calipers you already own by using a gauge block. https://www.amazon.com/Mitutoyo-Steel-Rectangular-Block-Length/dp/B003U9W8DK
 
Ok, is it this?
FYI, Mitutoyo calipers have an accuracy tolerance of ±.001in as well.
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or is it "half that" and we round off??

Venier and dial calipers show you the indicator line or needle and can show you it pointing in between the thousandths marks. You (or at least I) can see the line or pointer in between marks and with a careful look can usually see if it is exactly centered or more at one end than the other, with makes their accuracy "to the nearest 0.0005" and not a +/- .001".

. meaning if I measure say a 308 casings at 2.010, it could be between 2.009 to 2.011.
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I have Mitutoyo's dial calipers and using them, I'd find that 2.010" .308 case to be between 2.0095" and 2.0105" on the 2.010" mark.

yes the total range of the possible spread is .001, but remember that's not .001 on each side of the reading, its only half that.
+/- .0005" not .001"
 
Search on board member Clark's past posts. He demonstrates reading between the graduations on a Mitutoyo and confirms the result by another means, IIRC.
 
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