When I was in the Marines, I met a lot vets from the Viet Nam era. The ones who have crawled around those tunnels all said the same thing. They much preferred the softer shooting .38 spl over the louder .45 ACP. Ear drums can easily shatter in those tight confines. Never heard of any of them opting for a .22 though.
Did some Spec Ops Units use the Model 66 in the Nam?
- Thread starter Will Beararms
- Start date
Link to an old discussion that touched on this same topic: French SEALs Carry the 6" S&W 686. -- Kernel
Model 66 ?
I really enjoyed the topic and info. I can add some personal knowledge or at least address some of the subject matter.
Handguns seldom if ever were issued in the Teams. When I worked in the ordanance dept, the S&W 9mm, and S&W .38 were the norm. I bought a S&W model 60 in 1969 and loved it beacuase of it's size. I fired it so much, ammo was free, Igot to be quite a shot with it. As mentioned very succinctly, handguns are mostly extra baggage like big knifes. When it is time to sh*t and get, lighter is better!
Many fellows used handguns but mostly on "liberty". The Glock's, I was told by those still active duty, had the firing pin modified to fire underwater and are used "often". I never saw a stainless steel smith on deployment.
I can't say this is wriiten in stone just my experience while active duty, USN '68 to'72.
I really enjoyed the topic and info. I can add some personal knowledge or at least address some of the subject matter.
Handguns seldom if ever were issued in the Teams. When I worked in the ordanance dept, the S&W 9mm, and S&W .38 were the norm. I bought a S&W model 60 in 1969 and loved it beacuase of it's size. I fired it so much, ammo was free, Igot to be quite a shot with it. As mentioned very succinctly, handguns are mostly extra baggage like big knifes. When it is time to sh*t and get, lighter is better!
Many fellows used handguns but mostly on "liberty". The Glock's, I was told by those still active duty, had the firing pin modified to fire underwater and are used "often". I never saw a stainless steel smith on deployment.
I can't say this is wriiten in stone just my experience while active duty, USN '68 to'72.
Mannlicher
New member
When my younger brother was in Viet Nam, he was often over in Laos trying to locate NVC units by radio location. I gave him a Randall #1 and a new Model 19 when he went over. Two tours, and he came home without a scratch. He still has the Randall and the Smith, but only rarely talks about what he did there. I will ask him if he remembers anyone in his line of work,using a 66 back then.
point of order
The 357 Mag gets its advantage through the use of expanding ammo (bullets). Rules of War prohibited the use of expanding bullet in declared wars. I do not see how the 357 Mag would therefore offer any benefit in such applications. If the SEALs use them successfully they did so because of their level of skill (ability to hit the target).
The 357 Mag gets its advantage through the use of expanding ammo (bullets). Rules of War prohibited the use of expanding bullet in declared wars. I do not see how the 357 Mag would therefore offer any benefit in such applications. If the SEALs use them successfully they did so because of their level of skill (ability to hit the target).
.357 magnums in the Teams
I see the thread is still referencing the use of the .357 magnum and those who might use this cartridge by elite groups.
I feel compelled to address the handgun issue in regards to "The Teams".
Conventional deployment [30 years ago] no hand guns were issued. Training and qualifying stateside was Very common.
The Navy switched to 9mm and .38 special during the 60's and 70's. Many of us perferred the .45 but NONE were available as Standard issue. SO........................almost everone had a handgun of their own. Most had .357 magnums, because the .38 special was readly available. When we thought something was near, "We" hand our own ample supply of full power hollow points!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I could talk about details but my point is gearing up did not include any supplied handguns. I had my model 60 but it was small and "hid" very easily.
The anti-terrorist units did start formal training with the handgun. The issue weapons and calibars vary depending on the situation.So, the Delta Units and Seal Team 6 use handguns and much of the details will be kept out of the magazines and news.
YES .357 magnums, .38specail's were carried by men in the Teams, but not military issued. Stainless Steel revolvers in the 60's and 70's was very limited. You can write a book on the assortment of privately owned weapons we had to augment standard issue equipment. At times, open purchase was used if the situation warranted "new" gear. That is a story in itself, ie the Stoner Machine gun etc. I hope I added some info to the question and maybe some find my comments interesting.
I see the thread is still referencing the use of the .357 magnum and those who might use this cartridge by elite groups.
I feel compelled to address the handgun issue in regards to "The Teams".
Conventional deployment [30 years ago] no hand guns were issued. Training and qualifying stateside was Very common.
The Navy switched to 9mm and .38 special during the 60's and 70's. Many of us perferred the .45 but NONE were available as Standard issue. SO........................almost everone had a handgun of their own. Most had .357 magnums, because the .38 special was readly available. When we thought something was near, "We" hand our own ample supply of full power hollow points!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish I could talk about details but my point is gearing up did not include any supplied handguns. I had my model 60 but it was small and "hid" very easily.
The anti-terrorist units did start formal training with the handgun. The issue weapons and calibars vary depending on the situation.So, the Delta Units and Seal Team 6 use handguns and much of the details will be kept out of the magazines and news.
YES .357 magnums, .38specail's were carried by men in the Teams, but not military issued. Stainless Steel revolvers in the 60's and 70's was very limited. You can write a book on the assortment of privately owned weapons we had to augment standard issue equipment. At times, open purchase was used if the situation warranted "new" gear. That is a story in itself, ie the Stoner Machine gun etc. I hope I added some info to the question and maybe some find my comments interesting.
"The Navy switched to 9mm and .38 special during the 60's and 70's. Many of us perferred the .45 but NONE were available as Standard issue"
What 9mm was the Navy using? The only 9mm sidearm that I'm aware of the U.S. military using before the Beretta was the Mark 22 "Hush Puppy" the suppressed S&W. As for the .45 not being std issue, the Navy for active duty personnel until at least 1988.
What 9mm was the Navy using? The only 9mm sidearm that I'm aware of the U.S. military using before the Beretta was the Mark 22 "Hush Puppy" the suppressed S&W. As for the .45 not being std issue, the Navy for active duty personnel until at least 1988.
USN 9mm
Buzz_Knox, Hi,We had the S&W double action 9mm. and S&W model 15 .38 special both in 2" and 4". I know the .45's were still around but not in the ordanace locker in Little Creek Va.
I think, correct me if I misunderstood the post, there was a question with Special Ops not the regular outfits ie, shore patrol or shipboard personel. I only replied in response to posts regarding Seal Teams. Thanks for the oppurtunity to make my statement a little clearer.
Buzz_Knox, Hi,We had the S&W double action 9mm. and S&W model 15 .38 special both in 2" and 4". I know the .45's were still around but not in the ordanace locker in Little Creek Va.
I think, correct me if I misunderstood the post, there was a question with Special Ops not the regular outfits ie, shore patrol or shipboard personel. I only replied in response to posts regarding Seal Teams. Thanks for the oppurtunity to make my statement a little clearer.
Buzz_Knox, Hi again, It never was that laxed, open to whatever we wanted, but the platoon officer could cover up alot of "things". I was told straight up, not to load my hollow points in my .38, because the bullets in the pistol would be emptied on me if captured.
I never handled the "hush Puppy" but was told it was a High Standard. Of course we did get issued shotguns with 00 buck, & No. 4 buckshot. Latter I was told that shotguns were against the Geneva convention. I never read it, I don't know.
I never handled the "hush Puppy" but was told it was a High Standard. Of course we did get issued shotguns with 00 buck, & No. 4 buckshot. Latter I was told that shotguns were against the Geneva convention. I never read it, I don't know.
I'm not now nor have I ever been a SEAL (just to clarify) but from what I understand the Mark 22 Mod 0 (a suppressed version of the M59) became known as the Hush Puppy because it was most often used to take out guard dogs. The High Standard had been used for similar work as far back as WWII, and had been used by both OSS and CIA (which is how it found its way into VIetnam). I believe that John Plaster mentions use of the High Standard by SOG in some of their prisoner snatch operations.