DHS Raids Gun Collector – Confiscates Nearly 1,500 Guns – No Charges Filed

I don't believe in the black helicopters, or that there is some gigantic conspiracy to enslave us, or take away our guns, etc. but there are powerful forces and individuals who would like to obviate the 2nd Amendment to the degree that they can. The anti-gun crowd, including Pres. Obama, former President and Hilary Clinton, Mayor Bloomberg, Mayor Emanuel and many others would not hesitate to take away our right to own, and certainly to carry firearms. Many of these folks have said as much, but will try to do it in achievable steps. Each step will seem like a "reasonable" inroad on 2nd Amendment rights, for "the good of us all", or "for the good of the children" or even "if it saves even one life then it is worth it" which non-gun rights people, or the majority of the population which is too busy with reality TV and celebrity worship to even understand what is going on, will think is okay. Each local step to erode the 2nd Amendment will set a new precedent, unless forced by voters or the courts to be reversed. I really worry about what would happen if one of our five reasonable justices on the Supreme Court leave during Obama's term of office. We won Heller by a single vote, and could easily see the gains made in recent decisions totally lost by a new, liberal Supreme Court. This is why we need to oppose even modest anti-gun efforts. Each time we accept a new limitation, it becomes the new starting point for the anti-gunners to begin their efforts from. Until they remove all guns from citizen's hands they will not be satisfied. And if they were to succeed in taking our guns, and crime increased dramatically with citizens as helpless as they are in England, the anti-gun crowd will likely call for more and more government control in our lives in a hopeless effort to achieve their utopian and fantasy ends. Look at England today, where pointed knives are not allowed, firearms virtually totally gone, and the natural right of self defense denied to citizens. We must remain vigilant and united or it will be the end of this great country and our 237 year experiment in liberty.
 
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me--and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemoller
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You left out communists. That was in his original dissertation. I'm not sure I would have stood up for them either.
 
Sorry. I just copied and pasted the first thing I could find with Google. I wasn't academically rigorous.

I probably would have liked to think I would have stood up for the Communist. Otherwise its just moving the line of hypocrisy.
 
Nope - if he's going to accuse the government of an unlawful investigation or prosecution, then the burden of proof is on him, same way it's always been.
 
vito said:
I too have little that would be affected by some of the proposed regulations, other than some over-ten-round magazines, but if we as gun owners and supporters of the 2nd amendment don't stick together we are likely to lose.
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You have more than you know that would be affected by any of the proposed regulations: namely, your liberty. It's not just about the guns. Every gun related thing I own could be replaced with a single month's wages. It's the lost right and the lesson to government that they can get away with taking any other rights. That is the problem
 
I don't believe in the black helicopters, or that there is some gigantic conspiracy to enslave us, or take away our guns, etc. but there are powerful forces and individuals who would like to obviate the 2nd Amendment to the degree that they can.
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I can show you the pictures of the helicopters. The conspiracy to take our guns is real. Google the definition of conspiracy. As for enslaving us? Well, not like the plantation slaves. More like the industrial revolution slaves: workers living in squalor, indebted to the company store, and working for 80 hours a week.
 
I probably would have liked to think I would have stood up for the Communist.
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Well, in the last 60 years, it's the communist that's been the problem.
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I don't disagree. And I didn't even say I would have stood up for them.

But you've got the have a reason to haul them away other than "they ain't one o' us." As I said, that simply moves your line of hypocrisy farther to one side rather than giving you the moral high ground.
 
A gentleman on another website knows the gun collector who was raided. This is not his first problem with the BATFE.
 
Levant Wrote:

You have more than you know that would be affected by any of the proposed regulations: namely, your liberty. ... It's the lost right and the lesson to government that they can get away with taking any other rights. That is the problem.


AND

More like the industrial revolution slaves: workers living in squalor, indebted to the company store, and working for 80 hours a week.
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I think the overriding object is move society from the Lockean model of government by the consent of the governed to the Hobbes model government by right, although Hobbes espoused divine right while the modern movement would reject the "divine" part. To this end the social contract must be changed from one where the society is free and open, with a few laws to forbid damaging actions into one where society is essentially crushed and everything is automatically forbidden. If you want to do anything you ask permission first, sort like the children's game "Mother May I" used to be played. Fail to ask first, get slapped back.

To the second quote, well you have to have some control mechanism. 50 years. The cynic says, "I'll be dead." The optimist says, "What about my grand-kids."

I vote we at least try to look out for the kids. My parents and grandparents did it for me. A society is mature when a man plants trees where he knows that he will never sit in the shade.
 
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