SilentScreams
New member
Oh, and don't forget the para-militaries. You all know who I'm talking about.
develping new respect for Americans
- Thread starter mikthestick
- Start date
Mik,
With all due respect, you really don't know as much about the American gun scene as you think you do.
I agree that the borderline anti-Brit comments are unnecessary, but I sometimes wonder where you get your thoughts about this country & guns from.
I was one of the last bunch drafted in 1972 (spent two years stationed at RAF Alconbury, north of London, in fact).
Non-veteran hunters far outnumber military veteran hunters, and not every veteran handled a gun at all while in the service once through basic training. Most military specialties don't involve guns at all. You only see combat arms units on the news, you don't see the support people that keep the military branches up & running.
Basic training, aside from the Marines, covers basic weapons handling only & firearms exposure generally is not on-going during either a single hitch or an extended career unless it's a specialty that requires it.
Denis
With all due respect, you really don't know as much about the American gun scene as you think you do.
I agree that the borderline anti-Brit comments are unnecessary, but I sometimes wonder where you get your thoughts about this country & guns from.
I was one of the last bunch drafted in 1972 (spent two years stationed at RAF Alconbury, north of London, in fact).
Non-veteran hunters far outnumber military veteran hunters, and not every veteran handled a gun at all while in the service once through basic training. Most military specialties don't involve guns at all. You only see combat arms units on the news, you don't see the support people that keep the military branches up & running.
Basic training, aside from the Marines, covers basic weapons handling only & firearms exposure generally is not on-going during either a single hitch or an extended career unless it's a specialty that requires it.
Denis
SilentScreams
New member
I was referring to quals mostly. Which every MOS has to go through.
For instance, one private wasn't watching his muzzle positioning... he kind of got clocked. it was amusing.
For instance, one private wasn't watching his muzzle positioning... he kind of got clocked. it was amusing.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
Although pass by in both State Houses. The Gov in this State wouldn't sign S/Y/G into Law. Two days latter when the Young Man in Florida shot to death became somewhat known early on here because of the out-state news media. (CNN) Our Local News Paper posted a headline in the Opinion Page "Our Gov was Right about Not Signing that Bill into Law." --Before hand there was so much opposition to it from Police, anti gun folks, Lawyers, even M.A.D. mothers got into the mix. I have never seen so much commotion over any Bill like there was on this piece of Legislation. I think were just lucky to have the Castle Doctrine on the books here just passed & signed this last Spring reluctantly by our Gov. I'm wondering if both these bills were too close together in there timing? To much to quick?
--I no longer have that paper delivered to my home on a daily basis.This State has around 2 million deer hunters annually alone. Not one shooting sports organization stood up to voiced their opinion in this situation other than the NRA who sponsored the Bill. Most times they S/Sport do in other Gun Legislation of any kind. (Strange.)-- I was looking forward to the S/Y/G Bill. I think passing would have made a big difference here in slowing street crime. We C.C. again have to retreat in a dangerous situation if at all possible on a city street to save our own lives.
Last edited:
Andy Griffith
New member
All joking aside, different locations and states in the United States have widely differing attitudes toward firearms.
For instance, a good portion of the Appalachian mountains has a large firearm/hunting/target shooting history. There are some notable exceptions to the rule such as some of the largest towns in the heart of the mountains, such as Asheville NC (which is a lot like a little San Fransisco), Johnson City TN (which has bans on air rifles) and a few other exceptions.
There are turkey shoots, cowboy matches, pistol matches, etc- just something going on all over just my part of the tri-state area every weekend. I have also seen more women involved with sport and self-defense shooting and training than ever before- I've introduced many to the sport myself. If our hunting and shooting rights are to survive, we must involve as many women and children in training and the sport as possible.
For instance, a good portion of the Appalachian mountains has a large firearm/hunting/target shooting history. There are some notable exceptions to the rule such as some of the largest towns in the heart of the mountains, such as Asheville NC (which is a lot like a little San Fransisco), Johnson City TN (which has bans on air rifles) and a few other exceptions.
There are turkey shoots, cowboy matches, pistol matches, etc- just something going on all over just my part of the tri-state area every weekend. I have also seen more women involved with sport and self-defense shooting and training than ever before- I've introduced many to the sport myself. If our hunting and shooting rights are to survive, we must involve as many women and children in training and the sport as possible.
Last edited:
In my travels in Europe....
....and my interface with persons from European nations, I did indeed detect two reactions to American Culture. The first was a fascination with the "Cowboy" image of Americans. That image seems to have been quite widely applied. I had occasion to work with an Italian business person and the two words in American that he knew very well were Caterpillar (He worked in construction), and Winchester (When he spoke the word the exxpression on his face was the same as if he were addressing the Pope).
I would ask Myk if American TV Western shows were popular 10 to 20 years ago in Great Britain.
The second image is one of roughneck pioneerism. An Englishman who had visited the U.S. commented to me that he was impressed by the wide open space with, what he called, little pioneer towns. He called it barely civilized. To him I am sure this impression was valid and accurate.
All safety and especially firearm safety is built upon adherrence to strict processes or rules. A culture which is associated with the cowboy image and the pioneer spirit might be assumed to prioritize other things above rules. I can completely understand Myk's comments.
I don't view his comments as an indication that Europeans have forgotten WWII. Lest we forget, America did not enter WWII to win the admiration of our allies. We did it to help (and here I repeat with emphasis, the word "help") defeat our enemies. Talk to a Russian and you will get the portrayal that the U.S. effort was a minor annoyance to Hitler in comparison the the Russian onslought. To some extent this portrayal is accurate.
....and my interface with persons from European nations, I did indeed detect two reactions to American Culture. The first was a fascination with the "Cowboy" image of Americans. That image seems to have been quite widely applied. I had occasion to work with an Italian business person and the two words in American that he knew very well were Caterpillar (He worked in construction), and Winchester (When he spoke the word the exxpression on his face was the same as if he were addressing the Pope).
I would ask Myk if American TV Western shows were popular 10 to 20 years ago in Great Britain.
The second image is one of roughneck pioneerism. An Englishman who had visited the U.S. commented to me that he was impressed by the wide open space with, what he called, little pioneer towns. He called it barely civilized. To him I am sure this impression was valid and accurate.
All safety and especially firearm safety is built upon adherrence to strict processes or rules. A culture which is associated with the cowboy image and the pioneer spirit might be assumed to prioritize other things above rules. I can completely understand Myk's comments.
I don't view his comments as an indication that Europeans have forgotten WWII. Lest we forget, America did not enter WWII to win the admiration of our allies. We did it to help (and here I repeat with emphasis, the word "help") defeat our enemies. Talk to a Russian and you will get the portrayal that the U.S. effort was a minor annoyance to Hitler in comparison the the Russian onslought. To some extent this portrayal is accurate.
Last edited:
Jeffrey1971
Inactive
Howdy,
After a long time casually reading on the forum, and then the gift of a Pietta '58 in .36 (a long line of broken bones in my right hand so I thought I'd ease into pistol shooting again before getting a .44), I'm really happy to be shooting BP. Thanks for all the unintentional inspiration!
This may not be the best for a first post, but I thought I'd chime in here. As some have said, Europe is a huge place with a lot of different cultures and ideas about guns. Here in France, the real "crackdown" on gun ownership didn't start until well after the First World War, and didn't become cultural until after the Second. About a million reasons for that, but there is a long history with guns in the country and a lot of guns still around - you come across pinfire rifles, shotguns, and revolvers fairly often at flea markets, as well as older cartridge guns. And there are a lot of French with a real passion for American history; I can assure you that beyond the media crap on both sides, there is a lot of admiration for the States.
Black Powder firearms are still not considered as firearms legally - I order my BP through the mail with no hazmat or other restrictions, and nothing beyond being 18 is required to own or shoot such a firearm. Owning a non-military caliber firearm usually is only limited by being part of a shooting club at the time of purchase, and having a gun safe for larger calibers. Lots of hunting, lots of target shooting going on. I'm not saying that it's anywhere close to the gun culture I grew up with back home, but hardly what I expected after all those years of hearing how you couldn't own a gun in France.
Please don't take it as soap-boxing, just as reading for some general international gun culture. Thanks again for the great forum!
After a long time casually reading on the forum, and then the gift of a Pietta '58 in .36 (a long line of broken bones in my right hand so I thought I'd ease into pistol shooting again before getting a .44), I'm really happy to be shooting BP. Thanks for all the unintentional inspiration!
This may not be the best for a first post, but I thought I'd chime in here. As some have said, Europe is a huge place with a lot of different cultures and ideas about guns. Here in France, the real "crackdown" on gun ownership didn't start until well after the First World War, and didn't become cultural until after the Second. About a million reasons for that, but there is a long history with guns in the country and a lot of guns still around - you come across pinfire rifles, shotguns, and revolvers fairly often at flea markets, as well as older cartridge guns. And there are a lot of French with a real passion for American history; I can assure you that beyond the media crap on both sides, there is a lot of admiration for the States.
Black Powder firearms are still not considered as firearms legally - I order my BP through the mail with no hazmat or other restrictions, and nothing beyond being 18 is required to own or shoot such a firearm. Owning a non-military caliber firearm usually is only limited by being part of a shooting club at the time of purchase, and having a gun safe for larger calibers. Lots of hunting, lots of target shooting going on. I'm not saying that it's anywhere close to the gun culture I grew up with back home, but hardly what I expected after all those years of hearing how you couldn't own a gun in France.
Please don't take it as soap-boxing, just as reading for some general international gun culture. Thanks again for the great forum!
mikthestick
New member
Dpris & pohill mostly
I do know about guns, you are all teaching me about the American gun scene, I didn't know about the draft. I have tried to be cautious and not be insulting when making posts. My period of greatest interest is the Black Powder period. Your recent posts make me feel I should post how I feel about WW2, America and where my attitudes come from but I am not sure where to post it. As regards anti-British comments I thought them in Jest. In my locality the general attitude is "The greater the friendship the harder it is for my friend to insult me."
I do know about guns, you are all teaching me about the American gun scene, I didn't know about the draft. I have tried to be cautious and not be insulting when making posts. My period of greatest interest is the Black Powder period. Your recent posts make me feel I should post how I feel about WW2, America and where my attitudes come from but I am not sure where to post it. As regards anti-British comments I thought them in Jest. In my locality the general attitude is "The greater the friendship the harder it is for my friend to insult me."
mikthestick
New member
Doc I think the western has changed in the last 10 20 years. Movies have always been popular. Serials are virtually non existant now. too much reality TV.
mik
mik
I was just curious if there was a generational attitude difference towards American gun ownership in GB. You mentioned the opinions of your friends - I was wondering about the old timers.
As far as our little "dispute" a few hundred years ago - we keep bringing it up every July. That'll never go away.
I still don't get crickett.
As far as our little "dispute" a few hundred years ago - we keep bringing it up every July. That'll never go away.
I still don't get crickett.
SilentScreams
New member
Does anyone? Kidding.
I've been to London and surrounding areas a few times. Aside from a few pub scuffles, I never had any problem with most of the residents. They were as polite and as helpful as they could be in most cases. (Like me getting lost in downtown London and being at the opposite end of my hotel.)
mikthestick
New member
Generational attitude difference
Yes I agree. An uncle of mine drove landing craft in Normandy invasion, said he had Americans aboard sometimes (only spoke about it once). He said Americans did things different, but were equally afraid and equally brave. He made the point quite emphatically they were all very afraid.
I regret to say of myself & friends and our impressions and attitudes to Americans is shaped too much by Holywood. Holy wood often seems to put American soldiers in a bad light. I have recently been trying to redress the balance.
Yes I agree. An uncle of mine drove landing craft in Normandy invasion, said he had Americans aboard sometimes (only spoke about it once). He said Americans did things different, but were equally afraid and equally brave. He made the point quite emphatically they were all very afraid.
I regret to say of myself & friends and our impressions and attitudes to Americans is shaped too much by Holywood. Holy wood often seems to put American soldiers in a bad light. I have recently been trying to redress the balance.
Sure Shot Mc Gee
New member
I always liked History. As we can label a whole society from what is read to be either cultured or barbarian like. Mikthestick I would hope that Great Britain's folks think of us Americans as holding hard fast to the middle ground. We all know B/P played a tremendous roll in both our History's. I guess you can say it was "Yankee Ingenuity" that helped give us our Independence and also helped Great Britain to hold fast onto theirs. Which I myself consider a good thing for us both.mikthestick said:"The greater the friendship the harder it is for my friend to insult me-- I like that phrase!!!
SSMcGI lived and worked in the UK (Edinburgh) for 5 years, from 1995 through 1999. Two things come to mind that, at the time, characterized the perceived attitudes of the Brits towards the Yanks and vice versa:
1) A Brit thinks 100 miles is a long distance, and a Yank thinks 100 years is a long time, and
2) A Brit's understanding of Yanks is greatly shaped by Hollywood, and a Yank's understanding of Brits is greatly shaped by Holyrood.
During that 5 year period I was never insulted by or felt mistreated by any Brit because of my American heritage. I had interactions with the length and breadth of UK society, from HRH's to crofters, on a wide variety of subjects and philosophies. I was careful to always be honest and straightforward and that would on occasion result in disagreement and even anger, but it was never personal. I cannot say the same thing about other European countries, although I haven't visited them all.
PS - I suspect the reference to Holyrood above will be too esoteric for the Americans, so here's a hint: Holyrood Palace is the seat of the British monarchy in Scotland.
1) A Brit thinks 100 miles is a long distance, and a Yank thinks 100 years is a long time, and
2) A Brit's understanding of Yanks is greatly shaped by Hollywood, and a Yank's understanding of Brits is greatly shaped by Holyrood.
During that 5 year period I was never insulted by or felt mistreated by any Brit because of my American heritage. I had interactions with the length and breadth of UK society, from HRH's to crofters, on a wide variety of subjects and philosophies. I was careful to always be honest and straightforward and that would on occasion result in disagreement and even anger, but it was never personal. I cannot say the same thing about other European countries, although I haven't visited them all.
PS - I suspect the reference to Holyrood above will be too esoteric for the Americans, so here's a hint: Holyrood Palace is the seat of the British monarchy in Scotland.
Andy Griffith
New member
Mikthestick,
I hope you know I was only kidding! I hope you felt welcome, and if you are ever over on this side of the pond, you're welcome to come my very humble abode and go shooting, or at least have a glass of sweet iced tea.
I hope you know I was only kidding! I hope you felt welcome, and if you are ever over on this side of the pond, you're welcome to come my very humble abode and go shooting, or at least have a glass of sweet iced tea.
mikthestick
New member
Andy
I did have a problem with American humour but not what you may think. I tried to tell an American Wargamer "There were no medieval Scottish Longbowmen" I tried to be humourous about it and he got quite upset. I thought it best to just leave the Forum. Judgeing by most American TV comedies we get here what makes an American laugh can be quite different to what works for a Brit.
What you should know "I don't often get upset" I have learned a lesson though, When unsure I always look for and assume humour is intended.
I did have a problem with American humour but not what you may think. I tried to tell an American Wargamer "There were no medieval Scottish Longbowmen" I tried to be humourous about it and he got quite upset. I thought it best to just leave the Forum. Judgeing by most American TV comedies we get here what makes an American laugh can be quite different to what works for a Brit.
What you should know "I don't often get upset" I have learned a lesson though, When unsure I always look for and assume humour is intended.
Andy Griffith
New member
I do have some friends that are British although I've never been over yonder to the old country myself, I hope to pack the family and come over there and also hit Ireland (where some of my ancestors are from also) and have a look around the countryside...but I already live in vacationland! 
Or...is it the nut house??? 
I do have plenty of experience with MG's, Rover's though. I had to learn to read the King's English out of necessity to use the Bentley Publishing repair manuals.
I've been meaning to pick up a nice SMLE to go with my Webley's.
The British make great stuff.
Or...is it the nut house??? I do have plenty of experience with MG's, Rover's though. I had to learn to read the King's English out of necessity to use the Bentley Publishing repair manuals.
I've been meaning to pick up a nice SMLE to go with my Webley's.
The British make great stuff.
Last edited: