Detroit Mob robs, beats motorist, assaults pedestrians

Yea can you imagine, even if you knew they were a riotus mob, that they had demonstrated an imminent threat to you of serious danger, and you ran over some of them trying to escape to not be bushwacked like other drivers, the press would write you up as DRIVER RUNS DOWN CHILDREN, FLEES SCENE and even if witnesses back you up, the public damage done by the press would probably cost you mega millions in at least civil suits?
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So what's your solution? Wouldn't be any better if you shot some of those "children". There aren't really any great options when you're attacked by criminals. I can't afford an armored Suburban. If this ever happens to me, my Tacoma and I are un-assing immediately, whether the mob likes it or not.


Thanks to one Laurie Smith, mobs of angry thugs can do whatever they please to anyone they see without any fear of good people doing anything about it.
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????????
 
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I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the 'children' blocking the street would quickly move aside when the accelerator was pressed to the floor.
 
BillCA, You may recall the race-riots when the trucker was pulled from his rig and beat. Picture that scenario in your head and think what should be done. I believe today that that truck driver can`t even say his own name correctly. The animals that did that did not know if the first or last kick to the head was going to be the one that killed the driver. Nor did they care. Then they blasted him in head with brick. In angry mob scene where mob has their sights on me and i am cornered, its a no brainer.
 
Shortwave,

Excellent example. Reginald Denny didn't even know that a riot was brewing (his truck did not have a radio). Only when his windshield was shattered by rocks would he have realized the gravity of the situation.

I had a discussion with a pair of local (California) LEOs yesterday. In a situation like either Detroit or the LA riots, they believe that anytime you're being attacked at 2:1 odds or better, it is a life-threatening situation.

For what it's worth dept...
Since you brought up Denny I did a little research.

Damian Monroe Williams served four years of a 10-year term after he was convicted of felony mayhem for throwing a cinderblock on Denny's skull, fracturing it in 91 places and causing severe brain damage, as the riots began.

In 2003, Williams was sentenced to 30 years to life in prison for a drug dealer's murder. The judge in the case also sentenced Williams to serve an additional 21 years in prison for a firearm theft charge and other violations.

Denny had to undergo years of rehabilitative therapy, but his speech and ability to walk were permanently damaged. After the trial of his assailants, he approached their families in a gesture of forgiveness. He works independently as a boat motor mechanic in Lake Havasu, Ariz., where he moved after the 1993 trial of his assailants and an unsuccessful lawsuit against the City of Los Angeles. Friends say he has gone on with his life and has even begun to drive again.
 
JustDreadful, in case you were wondering, Laurie Smith is an anti-2A sheriff in Santa Clara County who personally makes it her mission to see that over 2 million people have no chance in hell of getting a carry license (and charges astronomical amounts for those who do, putting it further out of reach of the common man) and goes out of her way to see that none of the county parks allow firearms for defense against mountain lions and bears. She (along with the county board who allows this ****) is an utterly damnable wretch with no right to a badge or even a job anywhere.
 
Few good options

The day a mob attacks me is the day I kill an entire mob.
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Sure, take your hi-cap plastic and start spraying. You may even come out alive. Then again, you may not. Or you take careful aim and drop the first attacker or two, escaping while the rest scatter. Then what? Better get yourself to the closest police station instantly (do not pass go, do not collect $200) and turn your self in. You will be alive.

However, you will then be in the position of having shot an "innocent man" or two, while the other 18 will be lining up to swear statements that is what you did, without provocation, while they were just standing around minding their own business. A couple dozen eye witnesses vs. you isn't going to go well for you in court.

For those who say stay in the car and "floor it", there is a drawback as well. As mentioned, you are now a hit and run driver, possibly facing vehicular homocide charges. Tempting as it will be to "bust through" the mob, flooring it is a clear panic reaction, and can wind up injuring or killing an actual innocent person. Run down someone on the rear edge of the mob (who had made no threatening actions against you), and you are likely to be found guilty.

And then there is the risk that as you take off at speed, you can lose control of the car, crashing into something, immobilizing your vehicle, and exposing you to the now fully enraged mob's anger. Few good options here.

One better choice might be not to "floor it", but to move off at a steady slow speed (assuming you cannot retreat). Your car will get damaged, maybe alot, but moving through the mob at 5mph and not stopping for any reason seems to make sense to me. Rather than slamming into the mob, just push them out of the way. Very few people will let themselves be run over (especially at slow speed) when they can get out of the way. They may climb on the car, they may break all the windows, and try to pull you out, but this is hard if you do not stop. And once you are clear of the press of bodies, you can speed up to escape the area. Then head to the police.

It isn't an easy thing, and I think of all the movies where a mob surrounds a car, and then rocks it, eventually tipping it over. The all have one thing in common, the driver stops and sits there. It will take a strong act of will to continue to move forward, and not "floor it" to get away, but I think it offers the best chance of both escaping, and proving you are victim.

Turning around and driving away (even if you have to damage your car or other cars to do so) is the preferred option, and will likely be possible, if you become aware of your actual situation soon enough.

The best choice, of course, is the Myagi defense. Careful employment of this ancient oriental wisdom (from the karate kid movie) will avoid many, many problems. "Mr Myagi say, Best defense? NO BE THERE!"
 
44AMP, Yeah, like I said, lock all the doors and try the slow drive away approach. That may work fine. Then again, when they continue to beat on and break your windows, then start trying to drag you out, unlock your door, or injure you through your broken windows with sticks, bats, fists, whatever, are you still going to continue to slowly drive away? If so, you deserve whatever you get. No one wants to hurt anyone intentionally, but when THAT time comes, your life is in danger. Rest assured, before I get drug out of my car, I will use it as a self defense item, while in retreat. Damn the consequences, I am ALIVE. And I don't have to watch my wife brutally beaten or gang raped either.

And I am sure that all the damage to my vehicle will go quite far in convincing the police of the threat level I was facing.

If you can't stomach this, what would you suggest? Shooting them out the window as you slowly drive through them at 5 mph? :rolleyes:
 
No, no, no, Derius... you shoot them slowly too. :D

44AMP, I've agreed with you on other posts, but this time I'll disagree. Driving too slowly can get you injured. The trick is to drive at a speed that discourages people from being in front of you and makes it more dangerous for them to attempt to "hop on" as you pass.

Driving at 20-25 mph gives them a chance to get out of the way... especially if you sound the horn as a warning. If you drive slower, a running man can keep up enough to throw objects (bricks) through a shattered driver's window and hit you or jump onto the front or rear deck. You'll also need to be determined to keep going after your windshield becomes opaque from impacts. If rioters do get onto the vehicle, don't hit the brakes or maneuver until you're past the crowd.

Avoid start-stop or slowing down then speeding up. This shows indecision and a fast reacting mob might get people in front of you to slow you down for a group attack. A steady constant speed or a slight acelleration is better. There's less time for them to take aim or attempt to climb on. Keep both hands on the wheel and keep going.

If it's a really festive riot, they may offer you flaming drinks of the Molotov brand. If these are used or you hear gunfire you have entered a kill zone - speed up! Not that you'll put out the flames but it will get you out of a kill-zone faster. The faster you leave the better your odds for survival. Drive well clear of the disturbance before stopping.

As others have said, once you get clear of the mob, phone the police asap. Expect that your mob will say they were "just crossing the street" when you drove into their group and struck several people. They'll explain the damage to the car by saying they were trying to stop you as you tried to flee the scene.

Nota Bene: Once you find yourself in a kill-zone, anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing. Doing something at least gives you a 50-50 chance of surviving.
 
+1 BillCA. When fearing for life, its not adviseable to try to escape(given the opportunity) at a slow rate of speed. Remember, if your the mobs target, slow moving targets are easier to hit.
 
Bottom line is, if your in a vehicle, assailants are on foot and your not blocked in, do what you have to do to leave. Kauffman`s mistake was stopping car. There`s no real legal answer as to exactly what to do. What you do have to remember is you have to justify YOUR actions. You have the right to defend yourself to what ever extent neccessary to stop attack. You just have to convince a jury that your actions where warranted. Sometimes thats a crapshoot but at least your alive.
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Here is the big problem with that. Not stopping the car means in his case hitting someone with the vehicle. While it is evident now that would have been justified given what the mob did to him after he stopped, I think you would be hard pressed to convince the legal system that you HAD to run over an unarmed person because you feared that they MIGHT do sommething to you if you stopped.

Myself, in a bad area, I would not have stopped. I would have warned them I would run over anyone in my way, and I would have done it if they wouldn't let me pass. But, I know that could place me in legal jeopardy and that is very unfortunate.
 
Reminds me of the LA riots after Rodney King verdicts in 1994. Random mobs, looting, robbing, and the police would not dare to go into those neighborhoods at all.

Those Koreans had to take to protecting themselves. Armed with their own guns, they shot back at looters and patrolled their own places. It was a case of kill or be killed! Maybe Detroit ought to hire a Korean Mayor!

Detroit, Philadelphia, New York city (Remember when David Dinkens was mayor of NYC), DC. All of 'em crapholes.
 
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Upon further reflection, I disagree with myself,

And do agree with you, Bill. A constant 5mph is too slow, and your idea of 20-25mph makes a lot more sense. What I was thinking of, (and did not do the best job of getting my idea across) was a situation where you are stopped, surrounded, and hostile intent is clear, but the breaking of windows has not yet happened. Rather than barrelling into the crowd, I thought a steady fairly slow pace, pushing people out of the way, rather than running them down would be better. 5mph does seem too slow to escape, so perhaps a steady acceleration up to 20 or 25 until you are through the mass of people, then speeding up to clear the area would be a better idea.

I was thinking that slamming into the crowd at 40mph, even though you get through, would work against you in the long run. And I do agree that when it gets to the breaking windows and trying to pull you or your passengers out stage, the kid gloves not only come off, but get thrown away.

The real difficulty in this kind of situation is recognising when you are in it, before your options become so limited. My original thought was a (fairly) slow steady movement forward (and only forward if rearward escape is impossible) would limit the collateral damage, minimizing the risk to the potentially innocent in the crowd, while getting you out of the danger zone. As I said, there were few good choices. I guess what you would consider appropriate action would depend on how well you can judge the mood and capbilities of the mob. A mob of political protesters might curse you and bang on your car with fists or slogan signs, and go no further, and in a case like that, I think the fairly slow steady push through should work well enough. An angry mob out for destruction is a different situation, and more radical responses must be taken. Telling the difference is a hard judgement call, as difficult as anything you may do. Judge wrong one way and you can injure/kill innocent people. Judge wrong the other way, and they may injure or kill you. No easy answer.
 
ssilicon, Thats the point I was making. Yes, you may have to run over somebody. Yes, you will have to defend your actions. Thats a decision the person has to make(and answer for) involved in scenario. The cop you talk to in the aftermath will only play role as an information gatherer, same as a break in to your house or any other crime. Again, there is no exact law written as to what to do in this kind of situation but there are laws written as to protecting the lives of yourself and family. You just have to defend your actions and thats in any situation. If a person chooses to stop car and roll the dice that an angry mob( thats allready trying to get his car stopped for whatever reason) is not going to endanger his or families lives, thats their decision. If I feared for my life,I`d rather roll the dice in court.
 
BillCA, :D Shoot 'em slowly....lol.

Its nice to see that people agree with what you said, even though I said the same thing. Will you be my translator from now on? :D:D
 
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