Determining OAL

F Guffey: After that it gets complicated because there is that thing about seating to, at or into the rifling.
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Yea, am not there yet. I have seated to the rifling, and of course had to "jump" to the rifling, but I have very little (actually none), experience "jamming" a bullet into the rifling.

But im reading, learning, and experimenting as safely as I can.
 
Do pay attention to the fact that when the bullet is "jammed" into the rifling, the bullet can't get the "running start" it gets from conventionally loaded ammo, and higher pressure results, until the bullet gets moving.

No published load I know is suitable to use "as is" if you jam the bullet into the rifling, and a safe load must be worked up from scratch.

Personally, I don't think the bullet should ever be jammed into the rifling, both because of the possible pressure issue, and also because its not impossible that a bullet jammed into the rifling will stay there if you don't fire and extract the case, creating both a bit of a mess when the powder spills out, and rendering the gun unusable until you clear the stuck bullet from the bore.

If your gun shoots its best with the bullet just "off" the rifling, fine. I don't think jamming it into the rifling gets you anything, other than a risk, but that's just me.
 
Agreed.

But until you find where the lands are, then you really do not know how far off you are, and you can't work with COAL to find out where it shoots best.

You need a reference for that.

If you are happy with 1.5 inch groups that's fine, you don't need it either, but if you like to push for the smallest size possible, then you do.

I don't shoot even close to the loads with a new combo, I am always off it at least .005 to .010.

I get more "involved" as I push a load up and indeed could wind up with an over pressure.

So, just establishing where it is does not mean you set it there to shoot.

It also has relevance to how much your throat is wearing out.

For a hunting type that does not target shoot, no,

If you shoot a fair amount for whatever reasons then eventually the wear factors in to the barrel gone and need to replace it as well as understanding why your accuracy is going away.
 
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong. COL is measured to the tip of the bullet. The other, not sure what it's called is a measurement to the ogive of the bullet. COL listed in manuals is the length to the tip of the bullet that will fit in all magazines.

If you want to measure to the ogive but don't want to use a cleaning rod, you need those tools. But once you get the measurement you still have to get the seating depth by trial and error! The nice thing about those tools may be that they do only measure to the ogive. The ogive is always in the same spot on a bullet. To reset with the cleaning rod, you need to make a dummy case to keep the measurement, which you don't know as the distance to the tip of the cullet can change. For myself I've never bothered to keep a dummy around to set a die with. The distance can vary in the chamber of rifles. What I normally do is set the seating die for one rifle only. Get another rifle in that cartridge means I either get new dies of contend myself to reset every time I change rifle's. Got that going on now, have 2 243's. On one the chamber is just enough bigger to not let it's bolt close on a round. But on the other, it doesn't work because the bullet get's into the lands. I never though of that so now when I get a new set of 243 dies I have to reset both set's!
 
If you want to measure to the ogive but don't want to use a cleaning rod, you need those tools. But once you get the measurement you still have to get the seating depth by trial and error!
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It depends on the skill level of the reloader; "you need those tools". I don't, there is not trial and or error and I do not find it necessary to start over 'a-new' everyday.

F. Guffey
 
Guffey, you don't have to start over every day. Keep dummy's already set. I don't do that because I dedicate a set of dies to a rifle, well almost! For the first time in my life I have two rifle's in the same caliber! The loads for my Rem will not chamber in my Mossberg because of the case, I fit the case to the chamber. The one's for the Mossberg won't chamber in the Rem because the bullet seats out to far and reach's the lands in the Rem. Until now living with just one rifle for any one cartridge has been a breeze. Yesterday I went and marked the box's with the Rem loads. Fortunately I've only got one box of case's I use in the Mossberg.
 
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