Aguila Blanca
Staff
Of course they will. Just like the security guys in a case a couple of years ago who sat on a shoplifting suspect until he died of asphyxiation.johnelmore said:
Yep, they're all professionals and they know how to handle it ...
Detained by merchant?
- Thread starter Spats McGee
- Start date
Yep, they're all professionals and they know how to handle it ...
Glenn E. Meyer
New member
Being stopped like this happened to an Insights instructor. Thus, he said - Don't touch me, I want the police to be called.
Nothing was found.
In fact, if you have a cell phone, you might call them yourself and say that you need assistance as you are being detained falsely and need aid.
Nothing was found.
In fact, if you have a cell phone, you might call them yourself and say that you need assistance as you are being detained falsely and need aid.
I also just keep walking. Law enforcement may intervene and search bags only. Not ony person without a search warrant. These items are mine, I paid for them. They belong to me now. If I want to stop and drag every item out to show you that's fine but I don't want to show you nothing.
If you was driving from from the hardware store and had an 18 foot trailer filled with boards, sinks, tub, ac, etc. and some other car pulled next to you and said , hey buddy you won't to pull over and unload your trailer and show me what you bought. Hell no ! That's basically the same thing. These items were done bought and paid for.
If you was driving from from the hardware store and had an 18 foot trailer filled with boards, sinks, tub, ac, etc. and some other car pulled next to you and said , hey buddy you won't to pull over and unload your trailer and show me what you bought. Hell no ! That's basically the same thing. These items were done bought and paid for.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
I've never seen one who enjoyed being deposed and having to answer a lot of personal and intrusive questions.Spats McGee said:
spacemanspiff
New member
Best Buy does allow detention. They detained the crackfiend that stole my mothers car after he entered the store and started acting suspiciously with several accomplices. As she called in the stolen car, dispatchers were able to tell her 'we have the car, its driver is arrested on warrants, and now fresh charges of auto theft can be added'.
I am glad BB doesn't take a hands off approach.
zincwarrior
New member
Agreed. Your jurisdiction and mileage may vary, but in Texas, no one can search me or mine unless they are properly badged licensed officials. If they aren't thats battery and I will respond as such.
I would think probably cause would apply for a search of a person in a shoplifting event. It might require the suspect to wait around while camera footage is reviewed, but if you're perceived as putting something in your clothing, I'm not sure a "take of your jacket so we can examine the pockets" is out of order outside of a full blown warrant.
Either way, if you've done nothing wrong, it's simplest to comply with an actual LE officer's reasonable requests (ie submitting to a basic pat-down, letting him examine personal belongings such as coat/purse). Now a strip search, or requests by non-LEOs are off limits.
More directly on topic, I wouldn't do anything (except sit quietly in a safe place, preferable with a camera view) until a LEO came. After which, everything else should turn out in your favor and you'll shortly be on your way. Carrying or not wouldn't make a difference. The LEO would be notified of your weapon and presented with your permit upon his arrival. Since it's legal, he may request you surrender it to him during his investigation, but there's nothing he can do but return it to you upon his departure.
And for the guy who didn't buy anything, so had no receipt, pretty much the same thing. A search by a uniformed LEO would result in your vindication and you'd be sent on your way.
If a non-LEO insisted and began forcibly searching you, get out your cell, call 911, start screaming "assualt"/whatever, get the attention of anyone and everyone in that store as a "compliant citizen" is being manhandled by an angry shop clerk.
zincwarrior
New member
They are not going to try to search you, especially if you publicly denote you want an LEO and call them yourself. That opens them up to liability.
As noted the more realistic risk is a sole propriertorship being stupid. That should be taken care via your own use of the phone for police. To quote the immortal Ferris Bueller: "you touch me and I yell rat!"
Interesting law, interesting question ...
I would probably produce the receipt and suggest that they find what hadn't been paid for ... If the manager, rent-a-cop, etc., wasn't satisfied, I'd suggest they request an LEO, who would be told I was armed ... then, I'd hope we could unload my pockets, check my wife's purse, compare the receipt to our purchases and let us go on our way ...
I don't think I am required to disclose I'm armed to a store employee ...
I like the idea of thinking out things ahead of time, not something I'm noted for ...
I would probably produce the receipt and suggest that they find what hadn't been paid for ... If the manager, rent-a-cop, etc., wasn't satisfied, I'd suggest they request an LEO, who would be told I was armed ... then, I'd hope we could unload my pockets, check my wife's purse, compare the receipt to our purchases and let us go on our way ...
I don't think I am required to disclose I'm armed to a store employee ...
I like the idea of thinking out things ahead of time, not something I'm noted for ...
Mike Irwin
Staff
" Now plain clothes cops are one thing, but not off duty. They can hope on a cell phone and get UNIFORMED personel over..."
Yeah.... No.
It all depends on the jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions, police officers are considered to be "on duty" and must be armed at all times, and the have full authority of law at all times.
"Some store employee comes up and starts feeling your pockets, well they committed sexual assault, as well as battery if you say 'ow'."
Your pocket? That's likely, at best, simple battery.
Yeah.... No.
It all depends on the jurisdiction. In some jurisdictions, police officers are considered to be "on duty" and must be armed at all times, and the have full authority of law at all times.
"Some store employee comes up and starts feeling your pockets, well they committed sexual assault, as well as battery if you say 'ow'."
Your pocket? That's likely, at best, simple battery.
Mike Irwin
Staff
To answer your specific questions, Spats...
You're not a man if you don't immediately scream "YOU WILL NOT DETAIN ME!," whip out your CCW, and gun them down.
At least that seems to be the prevailing advice from a lot of people on the In-tard-net...
Me? It's never happened to me, but were it to, I'd POLITELY:
1. Not consent to being touched or searched in any way, shape, or form.
2. Request that the manager either summon police or cease the detainment.
3. When police arrive inform them that I have a legal CCW and present my ID and CCW (it's not required at all in Virginia, but it might help defuse the situation).
4. Once everything is sorted out, politely thank the officer.
5. Politely ask the manager to assist me as I do a full return on all items purchased in that store and inform him that I won't be shopping there again.
This is Northern Virginia. I have TONS of stores from which to choose, and these stores hate to lose a repeat customer.
You're not a man if you don't immediately scream "YOU WILL NOT DETAIN ME!," whip out your CCW, and gun them down.
At least that seems to be the prevailing advice from a lot of people on the In-tard-net...
Me? It's never happened to me, but were it to, I'd POLITELY:
1. Not consent to being touched or searched in any way, shape, or form.
2. Request that the manager either summon police or cease the detainment.
3. When police arrive inform them that I have a legal CCW and present my ID and CCW (it's not required at all in Virginia, but it might help defuse the situation).
4. Once everything is sorted out, politely thank the officer.
5. Politely ask the manager to assist me as I do a full return on all items purchased in that store and inform him that I won't be shopping there again.
This is Northern Virginia. I have TONS of stores from which to choose, and these stores hate to lose a repeat customer.
johnelmore
New member
I was reading in this thread that store security staff might be some lesser type of min wage person, but I beg to differ. They are people like you and me working a job the best they can. I once knew a guy who did store security at Sears and he was an enterprising Criminal Justice student in college. Another guy had worked store security before becoming a police officer.
Say and think what you want but these guys are not as unintelligent as what you believe and they will not approach just anyone. If they do approach its because they saw you shoplifting. They will not approach you inside the store but just after you leave with the merchandise. The police will be called at the same time.
The staff who approach you will be trained and most likely have done this before. Now in todays era this confrontation is avoided and the police will be used instead. If the staff does follow you it will be to observe and act as a witness but most likely not to detain.
So to make a long story short...dont shoplift and you will have no worries.
Say and think what you want but these guys are not as unintelligent as what you believe and they will not approach just anyone. If they do approach its because they saw you shoplifting. They will not approach you inside the store but just after you leave with the merchandise. The police will be called at the same time.
The staff who approach you will be trained and most likely have done this before. Now in todays era this confrontation is avoided and the police will be used instead. If the staff does follow you it will be to observe and act as a witness but most likely not to detain.
So to make a long story short...dont shoplift and you will have no worries.
Fishing_Cabin
New member
You hit on a good point imho... It will depend on the exact store, and their view on "loss prevention" but some of these positions are quite attractive to those in law enforcement working investigations who wish to change careers slightly. Ive known a few to make the jump to loss prevention and get a nice raise, better benefits and hours. Im sure other stores may use a minimum wage person for some of these positions also. So there will be a wide range of skill sets in these positions.
Probably one of the best suggestions.
Also, I would add that, in addition to the theft prevention things at the exit door going off, I am also leary of continually sticking my hands in my pockets/coat when I am in a retail establishment, because I do not want anyone who may be watching to think I am 'concealing merchandise" either, which is a misd here on its own.
Jammer Six
New member
I still think it's a non-issue.
The days of store detectives lurking around "shopping" are over. Before you get accused of shoplifting, you'll be on four screens from three angles and there will be five witnesses.
Which is, incidentally, exactly how they know you weren't shoplifting.
The days of store detectives lurking around "shopping" are over. Before you get accused of shoplifting, you'll be on four screens from three angles and there will be five witnesses.
Which is, incidentally, exactly how they know you weren't shoplifting.
This thread has been very helpful to me. It's so much better to know the law and have a plan of action. The last time I set off one of those buzzers I turned to the nearest employee and asked, "Does that mean I should run?" She laughed and said, "Ignore it. This buzzer goes off on its own all of the time for no reason." Had I faced a more aggressive employee, I would have had no idea exactly where I stood legally. Now I do. Thank you.
Deaf Smith
New member
hmmm detained by a merchant.
Police seek shoplifter who beat up Walmart employee as he fled with electronics
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...rt-employee-as-he-fled-with-electronics.html/
And THAT can happen to but most merchants don't take precautions.
Deaf
Police seek shoplifter who beat up Walmart employee as he fled with electronics
http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/201...rt-employee-as-he-fled-with-electronics.html/
And THAT can happen to but most merchants don't take precautions.
Deaf
johnwilliamson062
Moderator
"they are RFID detectors "
It is almost certainly an electromagnet tag/tower EAS system, not RFID EAS system.
I just keep walking unless I think I have something I forgot to pay for. The burden of proof is on the store and since I didn't steal anything they can't meet it. If they physically detain me, well good luck to them.
It is almost certainly an electromagnet tag/tower EAS system, not RFID EAS system.
I just keep walking unless I think I have something I forgot to pay for. The burden of proof is on the store and since I didn't steal anything they can't meet it. If they physically detain me, well good luck to them.
Assuming the detectors are not malfunctioning, I would offer to walk back through the detectors without the shopping cart or bag to demonstrate that nothing on my person is triggering the alarm.
They can poke through the grocery bags if they wish.
No searches of my person by anyone except a LEO.
They can poke through the grocery bags if they wish.
No searches of my person by anyone except a LEO.