You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
desirable trigger pull weight for home defense/CC pistols
- Thread starter chrisintexas
- Start date
Cyanide971
New member
Many will laugh and/or scoff at what my personal preference is, but I like my DAO's; my CZ 100 is 8.6#, whereas my PX4 D is 9.2#. Chomping at the bit to run my new HK LEM's (V2) through their paces....
Andy Blozinski
New member
Dry fire a bunch of pistols after you've checked their factory specs and see what you think.
In a high stress situation, you are just as likely to AD with an 8lb trigger as with a 1 lb trigger. Heavier triggers are not safer than lighter triggers. Training over and over on proper draw and presentation, keeping your finger outside the trigger guard unless pulling the trigger, is your main safety.
You should carry a gun with a trigger that you are completely used to. You always fall back to your minimum level of training when the chips are down.
You should carry a gun with a trigger that you are completely used to. You always fall back to your minimum level of training when the chips are down.
Smoother is better over lighter.
I also remember back when the tray von Martin trial was going on, and some gun expert was testifying about whether he had modified his pistol to have a lighter trigger or not. So, in case you think that won't come up if you shoot someone and go to trial, it can, and likely will.
For customers, I won't do an sa trigger less than 4 lbs on a defense gun. Revolvers usually end up around 9 lbs. Getting below that usually starts to test reliability, unless some serious modding gets done.
My personal glock runs a 3.5 connector with a NY 1 spring. This stacks and feels much smoother, and the pull is about 6 lbs, 1/2 lb heavier than stock. The factory parts are smoothed.
I also remember back when the tray von Martin trial was going on, and some gun expert was testifying about whether he had modified his pistol to have a lighter trigger or not. So, in case you think that won't come up if you shoot someone and go to trial, it can, and likely will.
For customers, I won't do an sa trigger less than 4 lbs on a defense gun. Revolvers usually end up around 9 lbs. Getting below that usually starts to test reliability, unless some serious modding gets done.
My personal glock runs a 3.5 connector with a NY 1 spring. This stacks and feels much smoother, and the pull is about 6 lbs, 1/2 lb heavier than stock. The factory parts are smoothed.
JamesK @ Staff noted:
There have been at least 3 NYPD incidents in the last 5 years where numerous innocent bystanders were shot by NYPD officers, and the perp was either totally missed or only received grazing shots.
I understand your comment Jim but the NYPD and their 12 lb trigger pretty well blew that one out of the water.In an HD/SD pistol where there is likely to be a lot of tension and adrenaline, a very light trigger pull is a bad idea. Shooting an attacker in self-defense might be justified, but shooting a half-dozen bystanders by accident is not. I would go for 5-7 pounds SA and 12+ DA. I am aware that my own Model 19 has a 2 1/2 pound SA pull, but in a defense situation, I would be likely to be firing DA.
Jim
There have been at least 3 NYPD incidents in the last 5 years where numerous innocent bystanders were shot by NYPD officers, and the perp was either totally missed or only received grazing shots.
TXAZ wrote:
Are you suggesting a lighter trigger pull would have: (1) reduced the number of innocent bystanders shot by NYPD officers; and/or (2) stopped more perps? Please explain.
I understand your comment Jim but the NYPD and their 12 lb trigger pretty well blew that one out of the water.
There have been at least 3 NYPD incidents in the last 5 years where numerous innocent bystanders were shot by NYPD officers, and the perp was either totally missed or only received grazing shots.
Are you suggesting a lighter trigger pull would have: (1) reduced the number of innocent bystanders shot by NYPD officers; and/or (2) stopped more perps? Please explain.
I don't think I care that much, as long as I can use it well.
Frankly, I have 12 lb DAO revolvers, SA 1911's at 4lbs, and everything in between.
Weight is not so important. Consistency and feedback is key to me. I like how the DA revolver rolls to a same point release., the way a 1911 has take up and then breaks, or even how a Kahr rolls and stacks slightly before break.
I hate how an M&P breaks loose, then rolls, then crunch, creep, break, and finally massive overtravel. That is the only real bad trigger I've used...the SA Ruger revolver or AR15 are a close second in crappiness.
The new Bersa Steiger Fire is too light, but I wonder if a petite woman would feel the same.
Frankly, I have 12 lb DAO revolvers, SA 1911's at 4lbs, and everything in between.
Weight is not so important. Consistency and feedback is key to me. I like how the DA revolver rolls to a same point release., the way a 1911 has take up and then breaks, or even how a Kahr rolls and stacks slightly before break.
I hate how an M&P breaks loose, then rolls, then crunch, creep, break, and finally massive overtravel. That is the only real bad trigger I've used...the SA Ruger revolver or AR15 are a close second in crappiness.
The new Bersa Steiger Fire is too light, but I wonder if a petite woman would feel the same.
Left eye asked:
Hi Left Eye, according to NYPD officers I frequently talk with, 2 other factors were mentioned, but the trigger was the biggie:
1) "a hard to pull trigger is hard to pull", and in stressfull situations is difficult to maintain accuracy
2) lack of range time (compared to many other departments)
3) "too many people"
Are you suggesting a lighter trigger pull would have: (1) reduced the number of innocent bystanders shot by NYPD officers; and/or (2) stopped more perps? Please explain.
Hi Left Eye, according to NYPD officers I frequently talk with, 2 other factors were mentioned, but the trigger was the biggie:
1) "a hard to pull trigger is hard to pull", and in stressfull situations is difficult to maintain accuracy
2) lack of range time (compared to many other departments)
3) "too many people"
"a hard to pull trigger is hard to pull", and in stressfull situations is difficult to maintain accuracy
Certainly true! But: an easy to pull trigger is easy to pull, and in stressful situations may also make it difficult to maintain accuracy (with the notable exception of handgun target competition.) I suspect that most police officers now carry semi-automatic pistols with a medium weight (and fairly long trigger pull). Are NYPD officers currently carrying revolvers with a 12 lb. double action trigger pull?
Quote:
I agree 100%. Any difference in trigger finger placement affects the entire grip and accuracy for one simple reason - the hand size is fixed so all fingers must be consistently positioned on a handgun (with the possible exception of the little finger) to achieve a shooter's best accuracy. This may not apply to ultra-light triggers on some types of target handguns (about which I know almost nothing.)
I've noticed with heavy triggers that I have to have precise trigger finger placement or my shot accuracy degrades.
I agree 100%. Any difference in trigger finger placement affects the entire grip and accuracy for one simple reason - the hand size is fixed so all fingers must be consistently positioned on a handgun (with the possible exception of the little finger) to achieve a shooter's best accuracy. This may not apply to ultra-light triggers on some types of target handguns (about which I know almost nothing.)
The other thing I've heard is the NYPD gun training has such low standards, that you can miss 12/50 at 7 yards and still pass. Yikes, no wonder they're spraying the bystanders... (That gets you put on desk duty at many / most Texas agencies)
That might contribute to the NYPD rep of having some of the poorest training.
Just found a reference here :
http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/yxx0w/nypd_officer_ama_all_questions_regarding_12lb/
That might contribute to the NYPD rep of having some of the poorest training.
Just found a reference here :
http://www.reddit.com/r/guns/comments/yxx0w/nypd_officer_ama_all_questions_regarding_12lb/
Any time you find yourself in court for a self defense shooting, expect that anything out of the ordinary regarding your gun and ammunition will be made "an issue", right or wrong. My carry guns are factory stock, right out of the box and my ammo is commercially produced, commonly available defensive ammo and if its of the type carried by the local law enforcement so much the better. Fortunately most of us will never face that situation, but some will. If you have Mas Ayoob to convince your jury of non-gun people that modifications can make you a more accurate and carefull shooter OK, but most of us will not. Our juries will just hear how we used a modified, high speed low drag killing machine.
I have one gun, a Glock 17 set up with a 3.5 lb trigger that I use for pistol matches, nice and smooth, quick follow up shots, I love it. But I also practice a lot to be "combat accurate" with my stock carry guns, and I don't believe the advantages of my modified G17 would be that much of an asset in a critical incident.
For me, a good 1911 from the factory with a 3.5 trigger, or a stock Glock 5.5 lb trigger, its all good. On the other side of that coin, I know lots of cops the carry duty and off duty guns, even BUGs with modified triggers and they don't worry about it. Its a matter of personal choice just consider all the variables before making the choice.
I have one gun, a Glock 17 set up with a 3.5 lb trigger that I use for pistol matches, nice and smooth, quick follow up shots, I love it. But I also practice a lot to be "combat accurate" with my stock carry guns, and I don't believe the advantages of my modified G17 would be that much of an asset in a critical incident.
For me, a good 1911 from the factory with a 3.5 trigger, or a stock Glock 5.5 lb trigger, its all good. On the other side of that coin, I know lots of cops the carry duty and off duty guns, even BUGs with modified triggers and they don't worry about it. Its a matter of personal choice just consider all the variables before making the choice.