Designs that succeeded in spite of themselves.

BOOGIE the oily said:
Hmmm...no.

The High Power weighs 1000 grams (2.2 Lbs.) empty, has a 4.7" barrel, and holds 13+1 rounds.

The CZ-75B weighs exactly the same, has a 4.6" barrel, and holds 16+1 rounds.

The Beretta 92 weighs 950 grams (that's almost 2 ounces less than the high power), has a 4.9" barrel, and holds 17+1 rounds.

Not to mention the CZ and the 92 are DA/SA. Sorry, but you're comparing apples to oranges here...

And about the mag safety, yes, it can be removed. Of course, you'd have to, first, know how to do it (not that easy, before youtube), and, second, be willing to accept the warranty and eventual legal implications of doing so.
But besides that, being easy to remove doesn't change the fact that it seems to have been designed by a very dumb... monkey.
Click to expand...
I don't know where you got your weight figures. Here's what I see:
Browning website Hi-Power 32 oz. (2 lbs.)
CZ website CZ75B 2.2 lbs.
Beretta Website (Owners Manual) 92FS 34.4 oz.

So according to the respective companies website data the Hi-Power is slightly lighter than the other two as I said earlier. I'll grant that the CZ and Beretta are conventional DA and that there are differences in barrel length and capacity, But the main point is that if the Hi-Power is heavy, so are other popular all metal 9mm Pistols (and more so in some cases). Compact versions are available from CZ and Beretta that are as light or lighter than the Hi-Power but the barrels are shorter and their capacity is reduced to within 1 round of the Hi-Power (or the same, or even less in some cases).

I also noticed on Beretta's website (in the 92 Owners Manual) that it is 15+1, not 17+1. (EDIT: Oh I guess you were referring to the 92A1 which is 17+1 and weighs a little over 33 oz.)

This monkey removed the mag disconnect from his Hi-Power himself before the Internet. And I even reinstalled it myself prior to selling it... before the Internet.

So how would a smart... guy design a mag disconnect for the Hi-Power? (Oh, and by the way, the mag disconnect design must require no, or very minimal, modifications to the frame and slide, and must work with existing magazines.)
 
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hdwhit said:
Anything made by Hi-Point.
Click to expand...
+1

Everything about the Hi-Point pistols should have put them in the same category of Cobra, Jennings, Jimenez, etc. type of pistols. The triggers are bad, they're almost as big as a Desert Eagle, the weight and ergonomics are awful... but they work and they can be very accurate and for the price, it's hard to beat even with all those drawbacks.
 
Look, this discussion is going nowhere. We're turning this thread into a "love/hate the high power" thread, which is not the OP's stated purpose, nor mine. So, I'm gonna answer you, and I'm done. What I first stated is MY opinion, and, for what I've read, it's an opinion shared by quite a lot of people. I'm not a High Power hater, but I'm also not a fan. Like I said before, I'm planning of buying a couple of them, as soon as I can.

BBarn said:
I don't know where you got your weight figures. Here's what I see:
Browning website Hi-Power 32 oz. (2 lbs.)
CZ website CZ75B 2.2 lbs.
Beretta Website (Owners Manual) 92FS 34.4 oz.
Click to expand...

Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Browning_Hi-Power

If we're talking about a design, we can't use a current production model's specs on a gun that's been designed more than 80 years ago.

http://www.czub.cz/en/produkty/pistole/standard/cz-75-b.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beretta_92

Same goes for the 92. The FS is not the original 92, but a modified, heavier version.

BBarn said:
ISo according to the respective companies website data the Hi-Power is slightly lighter than the other two as I said earlier. I'll grant that the CZ and Beretta are conventional DA and that there are differences in barrel length and capacity, But the main point is that if the Hi-Power is heavy, so are other popular all metal 9mm Pistols (and more so in some cases). Compact versions are available from CZ and Beretta that are as light or lighter than the Hi-Power but the barrels are shorter and their capacity is reduced to within 1 round of the Hi-Power (or the same, or even less in some cases).
Click to expand...

When I stated the High Power was heavy, I meant it's heavy for what it is. So, yes, if you compare it to a .50 cal Desert Eagle, the gun is a featherweight, but that comparison isn't really fair, is it? The same goes for a comparison with 2 guns with a more complex (and heavier) trigger system, and a higher ammo capacity. So, as I said, even if your figures were accurate, it's apples to oranges.

BBarn said:
I also noticed on Beretta's website (in the 92 Owners Manual) that it is 15+1, not 17+1.
Click to expand...
.

True, sorry. I was thinking about the Taurus PT-92
Still, the Beretta holds 2 rounds more than the High Power.

BBarn said:
This monkey removed the mag disconnect from his Hi-Power himself before the Internet. And I even reinstalled it myself prior to selling it... before the Internet.
Click to expand...

For the record, I've never called YOU a monkey...
I'm sure you did, And I'm sure I could've done it also, as well as pretty much anybody with some good mechanics background. But not everybody has that background, and not everybody is willing to do the job, and/or to accept the potential consequences of doing it.
And, in the end, the fact that the part "can be removed" is a poor excuse for it being badly designed in the first place.

BBarn said:
So how would a smart... guy design a mag disconnect for the Hi-Power? (Oh, and by the way, the mag disconnect design must require no, or very minimal, modifications to the frame and slide, and must work with existing magazines.)
Click to expand...

Why?
Contrarily to what you stated before, the mag safety was NOT added to the High Power at a later time. The High Power was designed to compete for a French military contract, which specifically called for the gun to have a mag disconnect. So there's no reason for JMB (or Saive) to not modify the frame, before the weapon went into production.
On the other hand, about "how would a smart guy design it", there are plenty of examples of guns with mag disconnects that don't interfere with the trigger, so how to do it is far from a mystery.
 
BOOGIE the oily said:
Contrarily to what you stated before, the mag safety was NOT added to the High Power at a later time.
Click to expand...

You are correct about the mag safety not being added later. I was confused by some older schematics that omitted it.

I've already contributed too much to diverting this thread so I'll cease as well.
 
Yeah, FM, I have to admit, the first time I looked at a glock,
I was like "-What the ? The safety is in the middle of the SA trigger?
Isn't that like putting ice on the edge of a cliff, and calling it a 'guard rail?' "
It's plastic, it's butt-ugly, but not only is it popular, other companies are
selling out their integrity, customers, and souls, to sell glock imitations,
in order to try to steal a piece of the glock market, rather than try to
make a better gun, themselves.
 
I never thought much of the wheel lock muzzle loading pistols. They were overly complicated, difficult to wind and prone to malfunction. The much cheaper to make and more reliable flint locks were better but both systems were a joke compared to the cap lock.

:):)
 
If more than a few manufacturers have been eager to copy and clone a design, it is a success. In other words, it is a design that starts a new trend. Many firearm designs will be eliminated, although they may have been produced a lot.

On top of that, it must be a success in spite of themselves. They have to be controversial, or something not well liked by all. That furthur narrows it down.

Not too many candidates still remain after these 2 levels of filtering. One of them could perhaps be Glock.

Of.course it is a very subjective discussion. Hardly a clear cut conclusion.

-TL



Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk
 
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