Depriming
- Thread starter njsportsman
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jamaica: Consider yourself admonished. Poor guys has enough on his plate.
Unclenick: That is about as convoluted a technical explanation (accurate of course) of the two system I can imagine. I don't think you have de-conflicted things!
I would simplify that a great deal. Something to the affect.
Anvil is fixed in the primer pocket hole of Berden (grin) brass, you can't put a decapping pin through it (various ways to deal with)
A Boxer Primer has the anvil built right into the primer you can see when you look into it.
Unclenick: That is about as convoluted a technical explanation (accurate of course) of the two system I can imagine. I don't think you have de-conflicted things!
I would simplify that a great deal. Something to the affect.
Anvil is fixed in the primer pocket hole of Berden (grin) brass, you can't put a decapping pin through it (various ways to deal with)
A Boxer Primer has the anvil built right into the primer you can see when you look into it.
Even simpler, if the case has one hole in the center of the primer pocket, its Boxer primed. More than one hole (and offset from the center) its Berdan primed, and NOT reloadable with common US components and methods.
The ironic thing is that the Berdan system was invented by an American, but became the standard used in Europe, and the Boxer system was invented by a European (English I think) and became the standard used in the US.
Shine a light into a fired case, and see how many flash holes there are.
Since you've done 150 and only bent one pin, I'd think they were boxer primed, and you problem is some of the cases could have offcenter flashholes, or holes that are smaller than your decapping pin.
Generally I'm not a fan of LEE products, but they make a decapping set that is a punch and base and very rugged. And if you bend or break it, Lee will replace it. If decapping military brass for the first time, get and use the punch and a hammer, and decap the case. Slow and tedious, but absolutely effective. Then run it through the sizer die. Then remove the primer pocket crimp (either an annular ring or the stab type crimp) normally used on military ammo by either swaging or reaming the pocket. Doesn't have to move/remove much metal just enough to allow a new primer to be seated.
(this is not the same thing as "primer pocket uniforming", though there are tools to do both)
The Lee decapper and base sets come in 2 sizes, one for .30, the other for .22 calibers. I've been using the .30 cal one since the 70s, and while the head of the shaft has become somewhat mushroomed from hammer blows, the decapping pin is just as perfect as it was when brand new.
Takes a little practice, but you'll quickly get the feel for when the pin enters the flashole, then a few wacks and tis done! Do have something handy to clean up the ash with, though...
The ironic thing is that the Berdan system was invented by an American, but became the standard used in Europe, and the Boxer system was invented by a European (English I think) and became the standard used in the US.
Shine a light into a fired case, and see how many flash holes there are.
Since you've done 150 and only bent one pin, I'd think they were boxer primed, and you problem is some of the cases could have offcenter flashholes, or holes that are smaller than your decapping pin.
Generally I'm not a fan of LEE products, but they make a decapping set that is a punch and base and very rugged. And if you bend or break it, Lee will replace it. If decapping military brass for the first time, get and use the punch and a hammer, and decap the case. Slow and tedious, but absolutely effective. Then run it through the sizer die. Then remove the primer pocket crimp (either an annular ring or the stab type crimp) normally used on military ammo by either swaging or reaming the pocket. Doesn't have to move/remove much metal just enough to allow a new primer to be seated.
(this is not the same thing as "primer pocket uniforming", though there are tools to do both)
The Lee decapper and base sets come in 2 sizes, one for .30, the other for .22 calibers. I've been using the .30 cal one since the 70s, and while the head of the shaft has become somewhat mushroomed from hammer blows, the decapping pin is just as perfect as it was when brand new.
Takes a little practice, but you'll quickly get the feel for when the pin enters the flashole, then a few wacks and tis done! Do have something handy to clean up the ash with, though...
Marco Califo
New member
Lee Universal Decapper Die
The Lee universal decapper die is also an excellent Lee product that is quicker and more convenient to use. I use it in a Lee handpress (another very useful Lee product), and can deprime while watching TV. The Lee universal decapper die never touches the brass, except for the very strong pin. This makes it useful for depriming just fired brass, before cleaning the brass. Once the primers are out, I wash the brass, which then drains better with the primers removed before sizing.
The Lee universal decapper die is also an excellent Lee product that is quicker and more convenient to use. I use it in a Lee handpress (another very useful Lee product), and can deprime while watching TV. The Lee universal decapper die never touches the brass, except for the very strong pin. This makes it useful for depriming just fired brass, before cleaning the brass. Once the primers are out, I wash the brass, which then drains better with the primers removed before sizing.
Nuttin' wrong with your Lee dies and your set will do everything necessary to get good, safe, accurate ammo. Beware of the "Lee Haters" on forums as you'll get skewed opinions of the manufacturer. I have 10 Lee sets and RCBS, Redding and Pacific dies and have no more problems with Lee than any other manufacturers.
Perhaps a bit of reading/study would help answer your questions. A copy of The ABCs of Reloading will tell you how to reload, explain the components (primers included) and the equipment used. Berdan military primed cases today are largely steel and the less expensive ammo available. Neither (Berdan or steel) should be reloaded by a new reloader (they can be reloaded but not really the easiest. Brass has been used over 100 years and is the best metal for cartridges). When starting remember K.I.S.S.
Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...
Perhaps a bit of reading/study would help answer your questions. A copy of The ABCs of Reloading will tell you how to reload, explain the components (primers included) and the equipment used. Berdan military primed cases today are largely steel and the less expensive ammo available. Neither (Berdan or steel) should be reloaded by a new reloader (they can be reloaded but not really the easiest. Brass has been used over 100 years and is the best metal for cartridges). When starting remember K.I.S.S.
Go slow, double check everything, and most important, have fun...
" Beware of the "Lee Haters" on forums as you'll get skewed opinions of the manufacturer."
So now I am a quote: "Lee Haters" .
So I go online looking for a set of 30-30 dies (2 die set) and come up with Lee for $22.99, RCBS for $38.99, and Hornady for $37.99.
From this all I can say is Lee is Cheap! There has to be a reason their price is way below the competition. I have always felt the reason is quality. Do as you will......
So now I am a quote: "Lee Haters" .
So I go online looking for a set of 30-30 dies (2 die set) and come up with Lee for $22.99, RCBS for $38.99, and Hornady for $37.99.
From this all I can say is Lee is Cheap! There has to be a reason their price is way below the competition. I have always felt the reason is quality. Do as you will......
Jamaica,
Lee set affordability as a company objective. They have accomplished this partly by putting little money into finish and partly by avoiding making tools beefier than is strictly required and partly by design ingenuity. So you find a lot of their stuff is rough, but functionally good. I always lap in my Lee Collet Necksizing dies for smoother operation, for example. But as this video shows, the design concept is excellent and produces measurably better results than more expensive dies do, even without my lapping step. Lee rifle sizing dies, in particular, are, as far as I know, the only brand finished by honing, so they tend to be consistently more perfectly round across their diameters than more expensive brands.
So, yes, Lee uses plastic and aluminum where others use steel and cast iron, but only where it works. And yes, I have choices I prefer to Lee in some specialty dies, but broadly speaking they are a bargain for functionality.
Lee set affordability as a company objective. They have accomplished this partly by putting little money into finish and partly by avoiding making tools beefier than is strictly required and partly by design ingenuity. So you find a lot of their stuff is rough, but functionally good. I always lap in my Lee Collet Necksizing dies for smoother operation, for example. But as this video shows, the design concept is excellent and produces measurably better results than more expensive dies do, even without my lapping step. Lee rifle sizing dies, in particular, are, as far as I know, the only brand finished by honing, so they tend to be consistently more perfectly round across their diameters than more expensive brands.
So, yes, Lee uses plastic and aluminum where others use steel and cast iron, but only where it works. And yes, I have choices I prefer to Lee in some specialty dies, but broadly speaking they are a bargain for functionality.
Does your dislike for Lee products rely only on cost? Do you have any experience with Lee tools?
I'm a lifelong machinist/mechanic and have made my living with mostly hand tools for 50+ years. I have seen what I call "tool snobs" that only buy, and often brag about, their tools are the same their favorite TV motorcycle builder uses, or what their favorite NASCAR pit crew uses, or solely by price ("If it cost the most, it's gotta be the best, right?"). Most will "talk up" their choice and bad mouth every other manufacturer ("If it ain't SnapOn [or MAC, Williams, etc.] it's junk"). One of the best hand tool manufacturers used to be Craftsman, which wasn't the finest finish but did their job quite well and had a no questions asked, lifetime warranty, reasonably priced but the Tool Snobs would never say they used them. I don't know the current quality as I haven't purchased any in many years. I've seen the same with reloading tools/equipment (If it ain't RCBS [or Wilson, Redding, etc.] it's junk!). Most "Lee Haters" fit this description and only the tools they chose to use are really worth anything and the rest is junk, and they go out of their way to post their opinions...
Jes an old guy's opinion/rant after reloading for 30+ years using all reloding tool manufacturer's products and get tired of hearing how bad a specific manufacturer's tools are...
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I have broken a few depriming pins in my days of reloading.
The first time I encountered Berdan (aka Bordon according to RC) I broke a pin.
I was a kid and found that Western Auto offered 100 rounds of 8x57 ammo for $5.00. I got a box 'cause I wanted the brass. Come to find out they were Greek made ammo and all were Berdan primed. I was pissed to say the least since I "wasted" by yard money on them. I mowed neighbor's yards for money back then.
That was back in the mid 60s.
When I started hand loading, I used the Lee Loader (now called the Lee classic), and loaded shotgun, rifle and one handgun caliber with them. This was before Lee made dies. I still have all of them. Some are a little rusty, but still functional.
Since Lee didn't make dies back then, I bought my first press (RCBS Jr) with dies in the green box. They worked and I never bought anything else.
Many years later a friends neighbor passed away. He helped the neighbor's wife liquidate all the shooting related stuff and I bought some. In the mix was Lee dies for hand gun calibers. The one I got was a carbide for 357 Mag.
I have used it a lot and it has worked for me for close to 30 years.
That is the only Lee die set that I have. Why? Prolly because the dies that I have bought since then were some odd ball calibers.
If it were not for Lee, I might not have started reloading as early as I did.
The Lee loaders were only $10.00 each back then, but they worked.
Some of the Lee specialty tools are great, such as the collet dies and so on.
The first time I encountered Berdan (aka Bordon according to RC) I broke a pin.
I was a kid and found that Western Auto offered 100 rounds of 8x57 ammo for $5.00. I got a box 'cause I wanted the brass. Come to find out they were Greek made ammo and all were Berdan primed. I was pissed to say the least since I "wasted" by yard money on them. I mowed neighbor's yards for money back then.
That was back in the mid 60s.
When I started hand loading, I used the Lee Loader (now called the Lee classic), and loaded shotgun, rifle and one handgun caliber with them. This was before Lee made dies. I still have all of them. Some are a little rusty, but still functional.
Since Lee didn't make dies back then, I bought my first press (RCBS Jr) with dies in the green box. They worked and I never bought anything else.
Many years later a friends neighbor passed away. He helped the neighbor's wife liquidate all the shooting related stuff and I bought some. In the mix was Lee dies for hand gun calibers. The one I got was a carbide for 357 Mag.
I have used it a lot and it has worked for me for close to 30 years.
That is the only Lee die set that I have. Why? Prolly because the dies that I have bought since then were some odd ball calibers.
If it were not for Lee, I might not have started reloading as early as I did.
The Lee loaders were only $10.00 each back then, but they worked.
Some of the Lee specialty tools are great, such as the collet dies and so on.
This was how I learned about Berdan primers too ! In 1967 it seems
every case I had for the WWII surplus Swiss K11 7.5 Schmidt Rubin short rifle had those pesky twin holes . I bought a dozen new pins and a small flashlight ...I look for them two tiny holes now.
The owner of the gun shop smiled as I told my story....he knew what was up and kindly explained it to me. No reloading sites back then.
Gary
every case I had for the WWII surplus Swiss K11 7.5 Schmidt Rubin short rifle had those pesky twin holes . I bought a dozen new pins and a small flashlight ...I look for them two tiny holes now.
The owner of the gun shop smiled as I told my story....he knew what was up and kindly explained it to me. No reloading sites back then.
Gary
One of the guys who used to hang out at our gunshop was a notorious brass rat. Not the nice kind that goes shooting with you, but the kind that waits until you leave then screams in and snags anything useful you might have left.
(he wasn't well liked, for other reasons, as well...)
A couple of my friends discussed going shooting, where he could overhear it. They went out to a local gravel pit, and shot up about 500rnds of Berdan .30-06 (mostly through Garands) then finished off with a box of handloads, put up in match cases, which were about at the end of their useful life (and so left behind).
Brass rat zooms in, spots a match case, and gloms the whole lot.
A couple days later, he's in the shop, bitching about needing to buy more decapping pins, because of how many he's broken on some "match" .30-06 cases....
I don't think anyone actually giggled, out loud....
(he wasn't well liked, for other reasons, as well...)
A couple of my friends discussed going shooting, where he could overhear it. They went out to a local gravel pit, and shot up about 500rnds of Berdan .30-06 (mostly through Garands) then finished off with a box of handloads, put up in match cases, which were about at the end of their useful life (and so left behind).
Brass rat zooms in, spots a match case, and gloms the whole lot.
A couple days later, he's in the shop, bitching about needing to buy more decapping pins, because of how many he's broken on some "match" .30-06 cases....
I don't think anyone actually giggled, out loud....
You got several folks saying 'toss' the bad brass. Depending on how much you have, you can sell it to scrap yards for about $1 per pound. A bunch of us old timers would collect the brass left from the 'spray and pray' shooters who were too lazy to pickup after them selves and we would get about $100 every few months that paid for targets, etc. FWIW: I started with Lee and finally moved to Dillon's 550 (have two). Go to https://www.dillonprecision.com and get their free monthly advert.
Taken from the Wikipedia:
Somewhere in there would be some irony.
The primer used in Europe widely was invented in NYC and the primer used widely in the US and Canada was invented in England.
Now to the thread starter. Removing primers in one thing and it allows for error. Putting new primers in cases is not as forgiving as removing them. I am sure a Google could bring up dozens of ugly images from when things go wrong. That said just be careful when priming cases, A little resistance as a primer seats is normal and work slow and easy. Read up on the subject before seating primers.
Ron
Somewhere in there would be some irony.
The primer used in Europe widely was invented in NYC and the primer used widely in the US and Canada was invented in England. Now to the thread starter. Removing primers in one thing and it allows for error. Putting new primers in cases is not as forgiving as removing them. I am sure a Google could bring up dozens of ugly images from when things go wrong. That said just be careful when priming cases, A little resistance as a primer seats is normal and work slow and easy. Read up on the subject before seating primers.
Ron