Depriming

njsportsman

New member
I am having issues with the sizing and deprime process. I have LEE dies and I am having issues where some cases are bogging down and from what I can gather is it is bogging down when it hits the primer because it just stops dead. I have bent the deprime pin and had to get another one. I have successfully deprimed about a 150 cases but, about 30 of them are having this issue. Its like these primers are cemented in because it seems to be stopping at the primer and when I get there it stops and you can feel the tension. Like I said I bent the primer pin on the die twice now. Any suggestions or ideas of what is going on . Thanks
 
No wonder you are breaking depriming pins.
My advice is gather them all together and toss them.
Make note of that head stamp and don't bring them home anymore.
They are berdan primed.
 
The picture wont show up for me.

But its either Burdon (sounds like it) or its military with staked spots to keep primers in place.

Burdon takes special tools to deal with and not worth it.

Military you probably can do with a dedicated decamp tool and clean up the edges with a primer pocket tool.
 
Berdan Primers - No Center Hole -> Trash Can

Do you know what manufactures to look out for?

No. That wont help because they are usually European military and could be any number of things. They will not be: LC, WW, Rem, Fed or anything else you have heard of.

Also, find a magnet and see if they stick to it. If they do, they are steel and you cannot reload them. Those are usually Russian made, where copper seems harder to come by.

When you are starting out, and learning, it is better to stick to something you are familiar with. Hang around and ask at your local rifle range and they will probably set you up for free.

Many people will recommend that you get a Lee Universal Decapper die, and deprime your brass before doing anything else. In the case of berdan primers you would be making a new hole where there wasn't one, and the brass is worthless. That is one of Lee's better products, and the pin is very strong and designed to slip before breaking. Many military cases will have crimped in primers which are harder to push out, and then, the crimp needs to be removed. But the brass is great otherwise.

You should make sure to obtain and read anyone of the good reloading manuals that details ALL the steps of the reloading process, and not just listing the load data. Lyman, Hornady, Lee and many more all publish them.
 
Last edited:
Burdon primed cases are rare, 223 maybe Europe only.

What does it say on the head and are they all the same mfg?

Lyman or Lee makes a universal decaping die but it won't do Burdon.

If you got that many out then the ones you did were not burdon as there is no way you can decap those.
 
RC20 wrote:
Burdon [sic] primed cases are rare, 223 maybe Europe only.

Actually the Berdan (not Burdon) priming system is the principal priming system used world-wide except for the United States, Canada and those manufacturers making Boxer primed brass cased ammunition specifically for sale into the North American market.
 
njsportsman: Do some homework. Get one or two or three reloading manuals and read them before you go any further.

Anyone that has not heard of Berdan primed brass has to be new to reloading.
 
There is also crimped primers which are mainly found on U.S. Military ammunition in particularly 5.56 and .308. You might be able to knock the primer out but failed to of removed the crimp. This will cause you problems attempting to prime the brass due the the brass crimp remaining in the casing. It is often found in Lake City (LC) brass. You will have to take the tedious road of drilling or hand reaming the crimp out. The easy but money wise expensive way of doing it is with a depriming tool (swage) desigend for crimped primers. One example is the Dillon Super Swage 600. Once you have used it the first time, the piece of brass can be deprimed in the future without the special tool. Do a google search. I bought one several years ago, and in my opinion it is worth every penny of its cost. It was about a hundred bucks then.
 
"...never heard of Berdan primed..." Read your manual.
Milsurp brass will not be head stamped .223 Rem. Nor can you tell much of anything about a primer from the outside.
However, Berdan primed cases have 2 flash holes. Look in the case. Sort 'em out, make some drawer pulls and pitch the rest.
Can't make out the other part of the head stamp. Might be Israeli.
 
NJ Sportsman,

Ignore those suggesting you should know this already. We all learn somewhere and don't need to pass their litmus tests for whether or not a question is legitimate to post or not. Some manuals do explain the riming systems, but not all. I was also disappointed by the Wikipedia article on the subject for having poor illustrations. I may undertake to correct that.

Both Boxer and Berdan primers have a metal cup with a dried pellet of priming mix in the bottom. In both instances, the cup is inserted into the primer pocket of the case. In both instances, the mixture is not rigid enough to be fired by merely striking it with a firing pin on the outside of the cup. There needs to be something to brace the mix against for the firing pin blow, such that the pin can squash the mix between itself and this support. The support is called an anvil. Where the two types of priming differ is in the way the anvil is configured.

Boxer primers have anvils built into them. The anvil is a little brass object with either three or two feet with wide pads on the ends. When the primer is seated, the anvil's feet first touch the bottom of the primer pocket and then, per specification, the cup is driven in about 0.003" further to ensure the priming mix is solidly supported over an area. That is called reconsolidation of the primer or setting its bridge. As the feet of the primer cover the outer perimeter of the floor of the primer pocket, the hot gas vent (the flash hole) is made in the middle of the pocket of a Boxer primer and the hot priming gases evolved escape between the legs of the primer and into that hole to get to the powder space in the case to ignite the powder.

Berdan primers have no anvils of their own. They are just the cup and priming mix, which is why they are less expensive to make. Instead, the anvil is formed into the brass case as a bump in the middle of the floor of the primer pocket, something that takes no more effort than forming a flat bottom primer pocket, and the Berdan primer is seated against that bump for reconsolidation. Because the bump is in the way, the gases cannot escape through ha hole in the middle of the primer pocket floor, so either two (most common) or three smaller holes are made around the perimeter of the bump at the bottom of the pocket, and the primer gases escape into the powder space of the case through these.

Obviously, when you have a decapping pin that is in the middle of your die, it will run into the inside bottom of the anvil in the Berdan system primer pocket instead of into one of the vent holes. The only common ways of removing Berdan primers are a special dual pin punch, a can opener-like device that pierces and hooks the spent primer cup out from the outside, and the use of hydraulic pressure, done by setting the cases into a holder that is open under the primer, like a shell holder, filling them with water or oil and pressing or hammering a snug-fitting dowel or metal rod down into the case mouth and hammering on it or pressing it up against a solid stop rather quickly to force the fluid through the vents and behind the primer cup to blow it out. In short, it's a bit of a nuisance to do.

When you have cleaned out the oil or dried out the water from a decapped Berdan system case, you can seat a fresh Berdan primer into it if you can buy one the right size. That's another problem. There are more different diameter Berdan primers than there are Boxer primers for common small arms cartridges, so you have to get the right one.

It is all very slow work, and unless you have a rare chambering for which no boxer primer cases are available, it hardly seems worth the extra bother.

The cases you have are most likely Eastern European or Russian. I say that because, being marked .223 Rem instead of 5.56 means it was not military ammunition, but it is not uncommon for such cases with Berdan priming to be turned out on contract by a factory in one of those countries, as they do a lot of such contracting and they can help keep costs down using Berdan priming.

Interestingly, Berdan priming is a U.S. invention and Boxer priming is a British invention. How we decided to prefer their system and they, ours, I don't know the history of.
 
I reconditioned some military surplus Polish P-64 9mm Makarov pistols a few years ago. They used commie-bloc 9 Mak ammo which is Berdan primed. Berdan is very popular in the commie-bloc nations. Steel cased ammo.

One problem (not for me) is that folks go to a place like Academy Sports and Outdoors and pick up some ammo that says 9mm. They don't notice it says 'Berdan Primed" and have steel cases. They take their 9mm pistol to the range and can't figure why the ammo they bought won't work. :confused:

The guy at the range 'splains it to them, sells them some 9mm ammo and the people generally just leave the 9 Mak ammo at the desk.

The guys at the range know I have all these Makarov pistols and give me the 9 Mak ammo!!!
 
Back
Top