Denied Illinois FOID card
- Thread starter ladder50
- Start date
Onward Allusion
New member
You were likely denied because of the following (excerpt):
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(430 ILCS 65/4) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑4)
Sec. 4. (a) Each applicant for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card must:
(1) Make application on blank forms prepared and
furnished at convenient locations throughout the State by the Department of State Police, or by electronic means, if and when made available by the Department of State Police; and
(2) Submit evidence to the Department of State
Police that:
(i) He or she is 21 years of age or over, or if
he or she is under 21 years of age that he or she has the written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian to possess and acquire firearms and firearm ammunition and that he or she has never been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent, provided, however, that such parent or legal guardian is not an individual prohibited from having a Firearm Owner's Identification Card and files an affidavit with the Department as prescribed by the Department stating that he or she is not an individual prohibited from having a Card;
(ii) He or she has not been convicted of a
felony under the laws of this or any other jurisdiction;
(iii) He or she is not addicted to narcotics;
(iv) He or she has not been a patient in a mental institution within the past 5 years and he or she has not been adjudicated as a mental defective;
*************************
You can appeal with the ISP on this. Otherwise, I think it is a 5 year waiting period.
BTW, good luck on your recovery and hang in there!!!
**************************
(430 ILCS 65/4) (from Ch. 38, par. 83‑4)
Sec. 4. (a) Each applicant for a Firearm Owner's Identification Card must:
(1) Make application on blank forms prepared and
furnished at convenient locations throughout the State by the Department of State Police, or by electronic means, if and when made available by the Department of State Police; and
(2) Submit evidence to the Department of State
Police that:
(i) He or she is 21 years of age or over, or if
he or she is under 21 years of age that he or she has the written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian to possess and acquire firearms and firearm ammunition and that he or she has never been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent, provided, however, that such parent or legal guardian is not an individual prohibited from having a Firearm Owner's Identification Card and files an affidavit with the Department as prescribed by the Department stating that he or she is not an individual prohibited from having a Card;
(ii) He or she has not been convicted of a
felony under the laws of this or any other jurisdiction;
(iii) He or she is not addicted to narcotics;
(iv) He or she has not been a patient in a mental institution within the past 5 years and he or she has not been adjudicated as a mental defective;
*************************
You can appeal with the ISP on this. Otherwise, I think it is a 5 year waiting period.
BTW, good luck on your recovery and hang in there!!!
Stressfire
New member
That'd be why - they also ask the same 2 questions on the NICS paperwork.
However, believe the 2nd question does not apply if you sought treatment willingly as opposed to being court ordered.
However, believe the 2nd question does not apply if you sought treatment willingly as opposed to being court ordered.
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yea, this is part of the FOID system i dont like. Honestly i dont like any of it because i dont see what it accomplishes on top of the already mandatory backround checks.
Congratulations on getting sober.
Ive often wondered about this. What if a mans wife dies and hes so distraught he decides to spend some time in an in patient facility. After he grieves and recovers is he unable to obtain a foid card? that doesnt seem fair.
I understand the purpose is to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally defunct people, but i can imagine alot of corner cases where a -Citizen- is denied his god given rights because of something that shouldnt bar him from having those rights.
...such as making a voluntary decision to clean up his life.
People who have attempted suicide, who are irrational and unpredictable, who have a history of violence. This all makes sense. But theres alot of situations where its just a case of the state stopping someone from exercising their right.
Of course this is all IMHO, and im sure people will disagree with me. I think the system makes gun enthusiasts fearful to pursue mental and emotional medical care.
Congratulations on getting sober.
Ive often wondered about this. What if a mans wife dies and hes so distraught he decides to spend some time in an in patient facility. After he grieves and recovers is he unable to obtain a foid card? that doesnt seem fair.
I understand the purpose is to keep firearms out of the hands of mentally defunct people, but i can imagine alot of corner cases where a -Citizen- is denied his god given rights because of something that shouldnt bar him from having those rights.
...such as making a voluntary decision to clean up his life.
People who have attempted suicide, who are irrational and unpredictable, who have a history of violence. This all makes sense. But theres alot of situations where its just a case of the state stopping someone from exercising their right.
Of course this is all IMHO, and im sure people will disagree with me. I think the system makes gun enthusiasts fearful to pursue mental and emotional medical care.
spanishjames
New member
I agree with you there. Seek help and maybe lose your guns and rights to them, or keep your guns and work out your problems on your own. Easy choice for some.
I can relate to mental illnesses and such. I was prescribed anti depressants for a short period of my life. Stuff like that can be very difficult to deal with.
Risking losing gun rights or get help. I understand how that can be a tough decision.
Definitely appeal to the ISP.
ladder50, what part of IL do you live in? Who's your rep? He/she may be able to help. Many times our reps have helped people get their FOID applications pushed through when the state police drags their feet.
Join us at illinoiscarry.com/forum. Lots of good people there, me included.
Risking losing gun rights or get help. I understand how that can be a tough decision.
Definitely appeal to the ISP.
ladder50, what part of IL do you live in? Who's your rep? He/she may be able to help. Many times our reps have helped people get their FOID applications pushed through when the state police drags their feet.
Join us at illinoiscarry.com/forum. Lots of good people there, me included.
horseman308
New member
First: congrats on getting sober, and good luck.
Second: it can be very tough to make the decision - to get help and risk losing gun rights. However, let me offer some thoughts as someone who works in the mental health field.
Not everyone who seeks help is "registered." What I mean is, just because you seek help doesn't mean that anyone has to find out about it. Your records with a professional are confidential except in certain legally prescribed circumstances. These are:
1) you are an imminent risk of harm to yourself
2) you are an imminent risk of harm to an identified third person
3) there is abuse of a child (states have different laws about whether it has to be ongoing abuse to be reported, or whether it has to be reported no matter when the abuse occurred)
4) court order
Now, of course, in the case of limits 1 and 2 it is something of a "clinical" decision on the part of the mental health provider what constitutes imminent risk. However, if you seek help such as counseling/psychotherapy, then the professional (at least a licensed clinical psychologist) actually cannot release your records to anyone without your written permission. If you use insurance to pay for your treatment, then you may have to release some of those records for the insurance company to pay for the services. BUT, if you can pay out-of-pocket, and you do are not an imminent threat of harm to yourself or others, I am not aware of a specific reason why a government agency should learn of your mental health difficulties.
There are lots of other complex issues to consider (i.e. at what point someone becomes imminent suicidal; whether it's better to be safe and remove guns from the home voluntarily, whether it becomes necessary to move from voluntary outpatient to inpatient treatment, etc.). Also, this should not be viewed as official advice, so much as just a perspective from someone who works there. But I figured it might be interesting or useful to some.
I say this because I truly believe lots of people go without help who need it; some of them are shooters who fear losing their rights. It's a legitimate concern, but not one that automatically has to be true.
Second: it can be very tough to make the decision - to get help and risk losing gun rights. However, let me offer some thoughts as someone who works in the mental health field.
Not everyone who seeks help is "registered." What I mean is, just because you seek help doesn't mean that anyone has to find out about it. Your records with a professional are confidential except in certain legally prescribed circumstances. These are:
1) you are an imminent risk of harm to yourself
2) you are an imminent risk of harm to an identified third person
3) there is abuse of a child (states have different laws about whether it has to be ongoing abuse to be reported, or whether it has to be reported no matter when the abuse occurred)
4) court order
Now, of course, in the case of limits 1 and 2 it is something of a "clinical" decision on the part of the mental health provider what constitutes imminent risk. However, if you seek help such as counseling/psychotherapy, then the professional (at least a licensed clinical psychologist) actually cannot release your records to anyone without your written permission. If you use insurance to pay for your treatment, then you may have to release some of those records for the insurance company to pay for the services. BUT, if you can pay out-of-pocket, and you do are not an imminent threat of harm to yourself or others, I am not aware of a specific reason why a government agency should learn of your mental health difficulties.
There are lots of other complex issues to consider (i.e. at what point someone becomes imminent suicidal; whether it's better to be safe and remove guns from the home voluntarily, whether it becomes necessary to move from voluntary outpatient to inpatient treatment, etc.). Also, this should not be viewed as official advice, so much as just a perspective from someone who works there. But I figured it might be interesting or useful to some.
I say this because I truly believe lots of people go without help who need it; some of them are shooters who fear losing their rights. It's a legitimate concern, but not one that automatically has to be true.
.wheelgunner.
New member
I'm curious. Does the FOID system interface with the local hospital's database? Or does FOID simply rely on you to tell the truth when you fill out the paperwork?
Onward Allusion
New member
^^^
Odds are the OP was reported by his provider or the ISP has access to hospital recorded. Below is an excerpt from the IL Dept of Human Services site. http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=37393
Visits to a therapist probably do not get compiled, but reports by health care facilities appear to be required. Also, whenever a health care professional deems an individual is a harm to themselves or others, they are required to report to the authorities. This is true in all States.
**************************************
Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) Reporting
Although DHS does not administer the Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) in Illinois, DHS does play an important role in the activities that go into implementing the FOID program. If you are a provider of mental health treatment in Illinois the following information may be helpful in understanding the statutory basis of FOID and whether or not you have responsibilities for reporting information to the Department of Human Services.
In 1967, Illinois enacted legislation to promote and protect the health, safety and welfare of the public by providing a system of identifying persons who are not qualified to acquire or possess firearms and firearm ammunition within the State of Illinois. The Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) Act designated the Illinois State Police (ISP) as responsible for administering the ACT (Laws 1967, p.2600, approved August 3, 1967, effective July 1, 1968. Codified at Illinois Revised Statutes, Ch. 38, Section 83-1 et seq.).
In 2007 Public Act 095-0564 & Public Act 095-0581 amended the FOID legislation. Most importantly "who must report" was expanded beyond inpatient hospital settings to include a number of other entities. These amendments also changed what information is reported and requires reporting within 7 days rather than every 30 days.
Reporting is accomplished via the web based system, called FOID Reporting System, developed and maintained by the Department of Human Services (DHS). DHS is responsible for comparing the data reported against the State Police FOID files to identify possible matches. The ISP is then responsible for investigating and processing the application for the FOID card.
DHS monitors compliance with reporting requirements and reports deficiencies to the Office of the Illinois Attorney General, Department of Financial and Professional Regulations, and other state authorities as needed.
Odds are the OP was reported by his provider or the ISP has access to hospital recorded. Below is an excerpt from the IL Dept of Human Services site. http://www.dhs.state.il.us/page.aspx?item=37393
Visits to a therapist probably do not get compiled, but reports by health care facilities appear to be required. Also, whenever a health care professional deems an individual is a harm to themselves or others, they are required to report to the authorities. This is true in all States.
**************************************
Firearm Owners Identification (FOID) Reporting
Although DHS does not administer the Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) in Illinois, DHS does play an important role in the activities that go into implementing the FOID program. If you are a provider of mental health treatment in Illinois the following information may be helpful in understanding the statutory basis of FOID and whether or not you have responsibilities for reporting information to the Department of Human Services.
In 1967, Illinois enacted legislation to promote and protect the health, safety and welfare of the public by providing a system of identifying persons who are not qualified to acquire or possess firearms and firearm ammunition within the State of Illinois. The Firearm Owner's Identification (FOID) Act designated the Illinois State Police (ISP) as responsible for administering the ACT (Laws 1967, p.2600, approved August 3, 1967, effective July 1, 1968. Codified at Illinois Revised Statutes, Ch. 38, Section 83-1 et seq.).
In 2007 Public Act 095-0564 & Public Act 095-0581 amended the FOID legislation. Most importantly "who must report" was expanded beyond inpatient hospital settings to include a number of other entities. These amendments also changed what information is reported and requires reporting within 7 days rather than every 30 days.
Reporting is accomplished via the web based system, called FOID Reporting System, developed and maintained by the Department of Human Services (DHS). DHS is responsible for comparing the data reported against the State Police FOID files to identify possible matches. The ISP is then responsible for investigating and processing the application for the FOID card.
DHS monitors compliance with reporting requirements and reports deficiencies to the Office of the Illinois Attorney General, Department of Financial and Professional Regulations, and other state authorities as needed.
TheNocturnus
New member
I would just say to wait it out. I was placed in an institution a couple times in my early 20's because of various personal reasons I don't want to reveal on an internet forum.
I would focus more on your sobriety right now and just wait for the FOID. Being sober sure changes your outlook on life and it sure as hell is a much better way to live.
I would focus more on your sobriety right now and just wait for the FOID. Being sober sure changes your outlook on life and it sure as hell is a much better way to live.
jimmythegeek
New member
Chiming in
1) Appeal. You weren't involuntarily committed, that should not count. How is sober you more of a threat than you were prior?
2) A judge can overturn if 1) fails. This would probably require a lawyer, but you might find some advice on the carry forums.
3) Focus on sobriety and wait it out. I am the son and brother of three alcoholics, house mate to a fourth. You are dealing with a lot of stuff. I understand that has to be job 1, and everything else comes second if at all.
I don't carry myself, but this pisses me off. You should not lose the right by taking such a difficult, courageous, honorable step. Good luck.
1) Appeal. You weren't involuntarily committed, that should not count. How is sober you more of a threat than you were prior?
2) A judge can overturn if 1) fails. This would probably require a lawyer, but you might find some advice on the carry forums.
3) Focus on sobriety and wait it out. I am the son and brother of three alcoholics, house mate to a fourth. You are dealing with a lot of stuff. I understand that has to be job 1, and everything else comes second if at all.
I don't carry myself, but this pisses me off. You should not lose the right by taking such a difficult, courageous, honorable step. Good luck.
You are not from Illinois would be my very strong guess.
You are not from Illinois either I take it.
I would suggest reading Onward Allusion's post. We are talking state law not federal.
However
is doable if you get an attorney. I was guestimated a $2,000-$10,000 cost for a family member in similar circumstances.
Good luck, the law does not make sense it's just the way things are in this state.
NukemJim
spanishjames
New member
It's even worse that that. In Illinois you need a FOID (Firearm Owner ID) to purchase, own, transport, or possess a firearm and/or ammunition. Without that card, you've got nothing. Unless you're a criminal.
If you got help for an alcohol problem, it is Very Illegal to have you reported. Let me guess, Alexian Brothers Behavior Health Hospital. When is somebody going to call these guys out.
42 U.S.C. 290dd-2. Look it up. It's also a violation of Illinois law if it was reported. People are supposed to get help, not get reported, that's the idea of the laws.
This just pisses me off.......
The guy who fought the Chicago gun laws told me of stories about people wanting help and getting reported illegally. The problem is, ISP will ignore your requests for an appeal, The IL State Rifle Association is totally clueless and absolutely no help - research it. If you want to challenge it, it's probably going to cost you $5k in legal fees but you would win. I've been there unfortunately.
All this quoting of IL statuetes regarding mental issues, give me a break.
42 U.S.C. 290dd-2. Look it up. It's also a violation of Illinois law if it was reported. People are supposed to get help, not get reported, that's the idea of the laws.
This just pisses me off.......
The guy who fought the Chicago gun laws told me of stories about people wanting help and getting reported illegally. The problem is, ISP will ignore your requests for an appeal, The IL State Rifle Association is totally clueless and absolutely no help - research it. If you want to challenge it, it's probably going to cost you $5k in legal fees but you would win. I've been there unfortunately.
All this quoting of IL statuetes regarding mental issues, give me a break.
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checkmyswag
New member
Me too.
The problem with the FOID card...is that there IS a FOID card!
horseman308
New member
You are correct; I am not from Illinois. I am however, a doctoral-level mental health clinician. The information above is of course general, and states do vary. If Illinois has laws that require violation of confidentiality beyond these limits, it is my profession opinion that something is very wrong, there.
youngunz4life
New member
its funny how many criminals carry in IL. It is absolutely stunning the hoops good people must jump thru there
I’m going to regret this I’m sure, but here goes….
I don’t understand all the opposition about the Illinois FOID card. It is supposed to keep firearms and ammunition out of the hands of felons and persons with serious mental conditions. For the record, I don’t believe the OP of this thread has a mental condition at all. He sought help for an addiction, and for that should be commended.
People claim the FOID card is a violation of Second Amendment rights. Privacy rights. Etc. But I don’t see it that way. The same people that scream about violation of rights have no problem what so ever about mandatory testing, background checks, licensing fees, and requirement to carry an identification card for concealed carry. So why all the opposition about a FOID?
A FOID can be helpful. It’s a crime to sell firearms or ammo to a person that is a felon, has mental problems, can be a danger to one’s self or others, right? Possession of a FOID card by a prospective buyer helps the seller, private, business or otherwise. It increase the chance that the buyer is not a felon or mentally ill. The seller can be safer knowing that he is not selling a firearm to a mad man. Not totally safer, but somewhat safer.
Now back 30 years ago when ammo sellers had to record the FOID information when ever someone wanted to buy ammo, that I disagree with. But it’s no longer required in Illinois. To buy ammo, all you have to do is flash the FOID card, and you can buy ammo. Nothing is recorded any longer.
Anyhow, it’s something to ponder. Why are FOID cards so evil, but a CCW permit / card is just fine? I must be missing something here?
I don’t understand all the opposition about the Illinois FOID card. It is supposed to keep firearms and ammunition out of the hands of felons and persons with serious mental conditions. For the record, I don’t believe the OP of this thread has a mental condition at all. He sought help for an addiction, and for that should be commended.
People claim the FOID card is a violation of Second Amendment rights. Privacy rights. Etc. But I don’t see it that way. The same people that scream about violation of rights have no problem what so ever about mandatory testing, background checks, licensing fees, and requirement to carry an identification card for concealed carry. So why all the opposition about a FOID?
A FOID can be helpful. It’s a crime to sell firearms or ammo to a person that is a felon, has mental problems, can be a danger to one’s self or others, right? Possession of a FOID card by a prospective buyer helps the seller, private, business or otherwise. It increase the chance that the buyer is not a felon or mentally ill. The seller can be safer knowing that he is not selling a firearm to a mad man. Not totally safer, but somewhat safer.
Now back 30 years ago when ammo sellers had to record the FOID information when ever someone wanted to buy ammo, that I disagree with. But it’s no longer required in Illinois. To buy ammo, all you have to do is flash the FOID card, and you can buy ammo. Nothing is recorded any longer.
Anyhow, it’s something to ponder. Why are FOID cards so evil, but a CCW permit / card is just fine? I must be missing something here?