Democrats vs. Republicans on Civil Rights

I find it interesting that some here can't, no matter how many times it is pointed out, seem to see that both the Republicans & Democrats IN CHARGE would like to infringe peoples rights. There are many gun-grabbers in both parties.

The common people in this country really aren't so far apart on the issues that mean the most to us. Everyone wants the Constitution & Bill of Rights to mean something. Everyone wants to live as free people & not have the government telling us what to do all the time, be it religion, speech, sex, RKBA, search & seizure laws, what we eat, drink, spend our money on, etc. Sure there are extremist groups on both sides who would try to impose their will on everybody else. The way I see it if the reasonable people in the middle don't stick together against the right or left extremists, WE WILL LOSE IT ALL.

Hawg Haggen - you said you don't have a problem with gays but you "don't want to see it". You are offended by it. Sorry, as was stated, you don't have a right not to be offended. You don't like it, walk away.

Some people here rant on & on about "socialist" programs to help the poor & tax the rich. People may not have a "right" to eat, but in a civilized modern society (the richest on earth) is there any excuse why anyone should starve to death. Don't get me wrong, the system needed to be reformed & it was. Could it still use work, yep.

I don't remember where I found it but a few years ago I saw data collected on tax burdens. The data I saw was from 1995 i think, the height of the supposed Clinton tax & spend administration. They took into account all taxes paid, federal & state income tax, property tax, sales tax, capital gains tax, excise tax etc. & found that the people who paid the most total tax as a percentage of income were those making less than $26,000 (I think the number averaged around 10%). This even with the progressive income tax. Those who made over $350,000 generally paid only around 7% of their income in total taxes.

Yet there are those who have no problem with the government giving corporate handouts & making those executives rich(er). I think it would be interesting to see how many wealthy Americans actually started from nothing & became rich in recent history by being an honest business person without any government assistance whatsoever in the form of tax breaks, subsidies, loans, infrastructure construction at taxpayers expense (railroad spurs, highways, water, electric, gas services etc.) or monopolies & price gouging. My guess is that number woud be exceedingly low.

The Bush administration & his Republican enablers in Congress have been the worst in recent history in infringing on our civil rights. I'm not saying the Democrats would/will do any better but WE THE PEOPLE need to stick together to make sure our representatives do our bidding on the basic rights guaranteed (not granted) by our Constitution & Bill of Rights. Once we get there we can work out the details.
 
Anyone who believes that Democrats give a hoot about rights needs to come to take a look at this bridge I have for sale in Brooklyn, it's almost new.

Sens. Diane Feinstein (D-Calif.) and Mel Martinez (R-Fla.) authored a bill (with 11 co-sponsors, including Sen. Barack Obama) that was incorporated into a housing bill passed by the Senate Banking Committee 19-2 before the Memorial Day recess — a bill that creates a national fingerprint registry.

According to a Martinez press release, the language merely “create national licensing and oversight standards for residential mortgage originators.”

One of the standards, John Berlau of the Competitive Enterprise Institute says, may “require thousands of individuals working even tangentially in the mortgage and real estate industries — and not suspected of anything — to send their prints to the feds.”

This is a step in the wrong direction — at least for a nation that preserves freedom.
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Given the tone seen over the last salvos of posts I think my prior statement stands.

Democrat or Republican it doesn't matter. Both are perfectly happy to regulate and trample the rights of those THEY don't agree with.

Republicans will defend business owners, capitalists and gun owners because that is where their base tends to be.

Democrats will defend minorities, non-religious peoples and blue collar workers because that is where their base tends to be.

When needed both parties will look to stifle the rights of those supporting the opposition in favor of their own views. Republicans will approve intrusive acts like wire tapping and the Patriot Act for "the good of the state". Democrats will regulate your use of your own property to the point where you go broke paying taxes on it but can't develop it "for the good of the planet.

I don't blame the parties though, I blame the people. As Heinlein said there are two types of people. Those who want to tell others how to live their lives and those who refuse to be told. Most people are busybodies, rep or dem, and fall into the "tell others how to live their lives" categories. They team up into the party made up of people who share their view of which people need to be told how to live and get indignant when the other party does the same to them. Even this board is populated by many of those people.
 
The original:

I see both parties as a half dozen of one and 6 of the other. The Republicans don't believe all men are created equal and want to shove religion down our throats (which violates the First Amendment freedom of religion), want to control the press's ability to release certain things about the government, and suppress people who don't support them as terrorist supporters. I mean, the Republicans during the Bush Administration, at least many of them, have become anti First Amendment, anti Fourth Amendment, and Anti Fifth Amendment. The only reason Republicans support guns, at least for many of them, is because not supporting guns is, in many areas, political suicide (something the Dems haven't figured out yet). I assure you that once the tide turns, and the NRA loses much of its political clout (as far as getting gun owners to vote guns), the Republicans will be just as happy to take people's guns away as the Democrats are.
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The rewrite:

I see both parties as a half dozen of one and 6 of the other. The Democrats believe men are inherently inferior to women and want to take away religion (which violates the First Amendment freedom of religion), want to control the press's ability to express certain things about whether big government is good, and suppress people who don't support them by labelling them baby killers. I mean, the Democrats during the Clinton Administration, at least many of them, have become anti First Amendment, anti Fourth Amendment (Remember Clipper chip?), and have been Anti Fifth Amendment (even though I can't quote an example). The only reason Democrats want to ban guns, at least for many of them, is because not wanting to ban guns is, in many areas, political suicide (something the Repubs haven't figured out yet). I assure you that once the tide turns, and the VPC loses much of its political clout (as far as getting poorly educated urbanites to vote against guns), the Democrats will be just as happy to let people have guns as the Republicans are.
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Well, aside from a little rewording, simply making the words "Democrat" and "Republican" trade places doesn't seem to change the OP much.
 
Someone explain to me why, throughout American history, it has been the conservative/republican presidents/congressmen who have championed civil liberties, rights and equalities, yet democrats receive the recognition for the conservative/republican accomplishments and the republicans never dispute their claims?

Explain to me why the conservative/republicans are so despised by the very people they have fought to help achieve equality?
 
Explain to me why the conservative/republicans are so despised by the very people they have fought to help achieve equality?
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It is always easier to attract a following from a populace who you give free stuff to. What the conservatives have done is to push for equal rights... Equal rights to succeed OR FAIL. Equal rights to prosper OR STARVE. Individual responsibilities AND THE CONSEQUENCES THEY ENTAIL.

Simply put the majority of the people we are talking about don't want real freedoms if they come with consequences. They want to blame someone else and be given a hand out. They want the freedom to do as they please without the responsibilities associated with that freedom.

Frankly put, some people honestly want to be slaves so long as they are given what they want and don't have to think about it.
 
I guess I asked a question that was rhetorical from my perspective, maybe I was asking to enlighten others who did not find it rhetorical so that they may make up their own minds. But I find more and more that individual thought is very lacking in today's generation.
 
Someone explain to me why, throughout American history, it has been the conservative/republican presidents/congressmen who have championed civil liberties, rights and equalities, yet democrats receive the recognition for the conservative/republican accomplishments and the republicans never dispute their claims?
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That one requires a little explanation. Who or what, exactly, are you talking about?
 
I see lots of bashing of corporations by those on the left and bashing of government programs by libertarian minded folks on the right. I view the big government Republicans (sometimes called neocons) as being more like the left.

One big difference I see between corporations and government is that people work voluntarily for corporations and people do business voluntarily with corporations. With government though, people must comply with government regulations under threat of force. I agree with some threat of force against those who would harm others. But the threat of force to compel charity or many other things government tries to get involved in is just rediculous.
 
Indeed, the civil rights movement led to a vast readjustment, where conservatives left the Democratic party and moved to the Republican party and liberals and moderates left the GOP to go to the Democrats. The Democrats became the party of civil rights, which led to them "losing" the south for many decades.
 
Hawg Haggen...

Try reading the first amendment again. The wording clearly states neutrality toward religion. Therefore government should have no role parading around a religion whether it's Christianity or Islam. If I wanted a religious government I'd either move to the Vatican or Saudi Arabia. Either way, they both fail hard because of stifling religious dogma. Also, with the way the world is shrinking, teaching our children about other countries' culture and religion is an eye opener and has the potential to erase tensions on a personal level. Only through ignorance and fear do people have hatred towards others who are different from them.


Epyon
 
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