DeLay wants concealed handgun permit back

He is subject to the same laws as the rest of us. Dig up some stuff to show me he tried to change this law and I will have some sympathy.

Showing up in court is not necessary at this point, it has nothing to do with views on "rule of law". The law or court did not require him at that time, did it? Just like lots of people have their lawyer show up in traffic court (or misdeanor court) without breaking any rules.

Antipatas, if you believe that rights only exist if the law recognizes them, you have no rights at all. Those so called rights of yours are only priviledges that the government is currently allowing, no more.
I believe many philosophers have written about 'natural rights' as opposed to legal rights.
 
I think you missed Anti's point

reality vs. belief

The belief is that we 2A supporters beleive that our right to carry to defend should not be restricted.

The reality is that the Courts have given the state the right to regulate these matters

The reality is that if you dont obey the states laws on firearms you will find yourself most likely convicted of a felony despite your views on the 2A.
 
I learned to read condescending twit just fine, thank-you.

Yes, of course in practical reality you are subject to the power of the state and can only do what those with more power allow. This has always been true, yet we argue that people have 'rights' in areas of the world where, using this logic, they clearly don't.
In Pakistan a woman doesn't have the right to defend herself from rape, she is merely a murderer.
In Afghanistan a person can't choose their religion.
In Darfur you don't have the right to live.
Those in power have decided it is this way and it is within their power to keep things this way.
In fact, at the point in time that somebody manages to create a military dictatorship in America, you have no rights to exist, though you may protest to the contrary if this happens.

So from that basic arguement, nobody has any rights they cannot maintain from their own power. Yet we argue that people have the intrinsic right to those things and more.

All very basic: you are always outnumbered - there are billions of other people. You live and get 'rights' because society has chosen to let you.
 
croyance said:
I learned to read condescending twit just fine, thank-you.
Click to expand...
From that little ditty, I assume you meant to say that I am just a silly and annoying person who has assumed airs of superiority. Is this correct?

Then you go and setup a strawman, so that you can knock it down and feel you have thoroughly thrashed my argument without ever once addressing that having to get a permit is in fact a privilege. Let's see... That would be a red herring, I believe, since you began this particular attack by misreading what I wrote:
Antipatas, if you believe that rights only exist if the law recognizes them, you have no rights at all.
Click to expand...
Since you misread what I was attempting to point out, you must also have missed several of the posts before mine that inferred getting a permit was a right?

So, is it wrong in your view to point out that if you have to have a permit, it is not a right? It should be a right. I think most of us agree that we should have the right to carry however we want. But the fact of the matter is that only in Vermont, and of late Alaska, is this recognized as a right. Idaho and Wyoming recognize a right to carry open or concealed, but regulate concealed carry when within city limits. Most states nowadays recognize concealed carry as a privilege. Many states do not recognize your right to carry openly, only a privilege to carry concealed.

But there I go again, being a condescending twit....
 
The power of the government comes from the consent of the people, the rights of the people do not come from the government. Courts in that sense cannot give the government the right to regulate anything that was not already agreed that they had the power to do so.

So yes, you do have the right. Which is entirely different than saying you are not breaking the law or will not suffer the consequences from that action.
Laws are not entirely about right and wrong. In the case of Elian Gonzales almost everybody was arguing about what they believed was right and not about what the entirety of the law said. Many other instances of injustices abetted by the letter of the law can be found.

A permit gives you the priveledge to exercise your right within the boundaries of the law. In some ways it is also the acceptance of a right being seen as a priveledge.
 
croyance said:
The power of the government comes from the consent of the people, the rights of the people do not come from the government.
Click to expand...
And those same rights can, under certain circumstances, be limited or regulated. Unless you believe in absolutes, that is.

My whole point, is that what is happening to DeLay is the same that would happen to you or I. If all his charges are dropped or he is exonerated in Court, then he will have his permit returned. I find it comforting to see our legislators held to the same standard we are held to.

His current legal maneuvering will no doubt not prevail. That's as it should be, given the laws of Texas. Perhaps this will spur DeLay or others to change the laws.
 
just saw this regarding delay, not exactly about his ccw but not really worth it's own post on tfl either...remember, DeLay's innocent until all his people plead guilty.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/01/washington/01lobby.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

WASHINGTON, March 31 — A former top aide to Representative Tom DeLay pleaded guilty on Friday to charges that he accepted thousands of dollars in illegal gifts, including money funneled through a consulting firm he set up with his wife and travel by private jet to California, in return for influencing legislation on behalf of the lobbyist Jack Abramoff.
 
"Officials: DeLay Won't Seek Re-Election"

:eek:

WASHINGTON - Former House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, a Texan touched by a lobbying scandal that ensnared some of his former top aides and cost the Republican his leadership post, won't seek re-election to Congress, officials said Monday.

They said DeLay also is likely to resign his seat and leave Congress by the end of May or mid-June. That would trigger a special election for his replacement.

http://news.sbc.yahoo.com/s/ap/dela...JG3AZ2s0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
 
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