defensive shot gun choice?

O

Obsidean Prime

Inactive
What make and model is best for defensive home use in a shot gun. 12 guage of course. I see several of different bareel lengths and magazine lengeths. I have never had a shot gun so know little about which one would be best for home defense.
 
A 18" to 20" barreled pump shotgun by any one of the "Big Four" is perfect.

Remington's 870 Express or the more expensive Police model.
The Express used to be named the "Express HD" (Home Defense) model, but Remington is now simply calling it the Express.
Remington sells two versions: a standard magazine model or an extended magazine model.

They also sell the more expensive Police Model and more than 95% of all American Law Enforcement agencies use the Police Model 870
http://www.remingon.com
http://www.remingtonle.com

Winchester's 1300. Many people like the Winchester's rotary bolt system.
http://www.winchesterguns.com/

Mossbergs Model 500, or the more expensive 590.
Mossberg sells a HUGE variety of pump guns, and they're about the cheapest.
http://www.mossberg.com/

Ithaca's Model 37. Ithaca apparently makes a home defense shotgun, but they don't advertise it for some reason, and you rarely see new Ithaca guns in stores.
http://www.ithacagun.com/

I'd suggest looking around the local gun stores and the local Wal-Mart and check out the Remington, Winchester, and Mossberg pump guns. Most guns in the racks will likely be longer barreled sporting guns, but most dealers, and many Wal-Mart's will order a defense gun for you.

Again, any one of these with a shorter barrel is perfect.
 
Lots say get a pump. Don't do it.

Talk to police who have training courses for shotguns, and alway the report is that short stroking a pump, no matter how familiar, is much more common than malfunction of an automatic. As in other types of combat weapons, a semi-auto has an edge over a manually operated action like a pump. Edge in speed, edge in removing one more thing for the guy holding it to make happen. In combat or self defense simpler is better. And reliable modern semi-auto shotguns are simpler to operate. And more effective.

Go with a Remington 1187 or good Benelli. The 1187 is gas operated making it shoot softer, the Benelli is recoil operated. Still an advantage over a pump either way.

Many will tell you they have used a pump so much the short stroke won't happen. But real world results say otherwise.
 
My vote goes for the Remington 870 deer gun. http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870expdr.htm. BUT, GET THE ONE WITH THE IMPROVED CHOKE RATHER THAN THE RIFLED SLUG BARREL. With this package, you get a classic wooden stock and forend, rifle sights, and an improved choke. It only has a four round mag, but that should be fine for home defense. It's a nice gun that you could also use to hunt.

I have a Mossberg 500. Nothing wrong with it, but I wish I had an 870.
 
There is currently about 10 threads on the "shotgun debate" right now. Never owned a gas operated gun. Heard about cleaning ports, and things and figured right now that's too much. Do know that any gun is practice. Not using any gun correctly in a high adrenaline situation is possible. I think we have disscussed loads, the differences of 3 pumps, Mossy, Win, and the probable fave 870. Many people ave stated they have SxS, that are very workable. I like SxS but am seriously doubting the brand I want because of the ability of it to be open quickly. I do not think the top of the line o/u with selectable ejectors that just exject spent cartidges has stepped into the fray, but I guess if your gun has to be used as a club it is understandable. The load info is varied too. Lot of info, I think your area and expected usage will haelp you narrow it down quickly. Take into account, neighbors and other things that might get hit, by stray pellets, or slugs.
 
esldude

I gotta disagree with you about the semi. They can be very finikey with the wrong loads, and the last thing you want in a defensive situation is a jam from a shell that didn't have the "umph" to push the bolt back and let the shell completely out. Any pump gun will allow you to use low recoil loads to increase manageability.

In combat or self defense simpler is better.
Click to expand...

Mechanical simplicity is a very important component. Fewer parts means, fewer parts that can break or malfunction. Pumps have fewer parts to wear and require attention. It's true that a high-end semi will be trustworthy, but I'll bet that you were not planning on spending the almost $1000 for a Benelli M1 Tactical and that is about the only semi I would consider for HD. Personally, I wouldn't touch a Remington semi for HD due to cycling problems I have had with light loads on the sporting clays course. Most police departments that I know, carry pump guns for the reason of reliability.

IMO go with the pump. Personally, I like the Mossy 500 and the Win 1300 Defender. They are simple and reliable with anthing you put through them. The best thing I can suggest is borrow one of each (if possible) and run some rounds through each them to see what you are most comfortable with. All the midrange pumps are about equal in quality, find the one you feel most comfortable with in terms of balance and control placements (safety, pump release, etc).

A similar thread is running under the heading "Winchester 1300 Defender." There maybe some more info you can use there.

P.S. Don't rule out the 20ga. It is plenty for HD with generally lighter recoil and a lighter frame to carry. The only thing it lacks is the versatility of the 12ga as far as hunting is concerned.

P.P.S. If it's HD only, as many in the mag as possible, with the shortest barrel legal using an Improved Cylinder choke.

* All views are personal opinion from experiences and research and do not represent the views of TFL Staff or Organization. I had to throw that in there for comic relief. :)*
 
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If cost is a factor, Mossberg 500 in 20 gauge.

#50452 20 ga. 500® Pump 6-shot, w/18.5" barrel ...MSRP $353

Details at http://www.mossberg.com/pcatalog/Specpurp.htm

AND PRACTICE, PRACTICE, AND PRACTICE.

The 20 ga. is more controllable and compact in Close Quarters.

Geoff
Who remembers the guy with the Thousand Dollar defensive automatic shotgun who went to the range and his weapon wouldn't chamber a round. He haddn't bothered to clean the barrel and a small piece of packing plastic foam had adhered itself inside the chamber. Practice, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!!
:cool:
 
have never owned anything but Mossbergs

So I can't speak first hand of the others, but by all acounts the Rem and Win guns are plenty good, too. My HD shotty is a Mossberg 500 "Special Purpose", 20" cylinder barrel, 8+1 capacity. Cost me $215 on sale at Dunhams. Added a pistol grip, folding stock so its a bit handier (overal length 30")...I do wanna port the barrel for a little better contollability, when I shoot 3" Magnum 00 buck, wicked muzzle rise, but contollable...just) I, too would NOT recomend an autoloader for the reasons stated...Practice a little bit...I've never short-stroked a pump in 30 years of shooting...Clay sports, hunting and practice, many thousands of rounds...You just make sure you pull it back til it stops!
 
have never owned anything but Mossbergs

So I can't speak first hand of the others, but by all acounts the Rem and Win guns are plenty good, too. My HD shotty is a Mossberg 500 "Special Purpose", 20" cylinder barrel, 8+1 capacity. Cost me $215 on sale at Dunhams. Added a pistol grip, folding stock so its a bit handier (overal length 30")...I do wanna port the barrel for a little better contollability, when I shoot 3" Magnum 00 buck, wicked muzzle rise, but contollable...just) I, too would NOT recomend an autoloader for the reasons stated...Practice a little bit...I've never short-stroked a pump in 30 years of shooting...Clay sports, hunting and practice, many thousands of rounds...You just make sure you pull it back til it stops!
 
18"~20" 12 gauge pump from any of the big 4 makers (Winchester, Remington, Mossberg, Ithaca).

With the exception of the Ithaca, modifications and acccessories abound for the above. All can be had on the new and used market from as low as the low $100 range to $400 or so.

Of my four shotguns, I have paid the following (all used);

Winchester 1897 20" - $250 (though I just put $200 into it for a refinish and tune up after 12 years of service)
Stevens 620 Riot gun (ex-WWII California Civil Defense gun) - $225
Ithaca DSPS - $400
Remington 870 Wingmaster with 20" deer barrel and 30" full choke - $250

The 1897 was well used, but functional. The Stevens was easily in 90% condition. The Remington as well. The Ithaca was "as new".

I can pick up any of the 4 and will be 100% confident in my and the guns ability to get the job done.
 
The "coachgun" is also a fine HD choice, super reliable, can't short stroke, REALLY short and handy because not only do they have 20 in. barrels but they also don't have a reciever so that takes away abot 6 in.. However it does have a huge weakness and that is it only holds 2 shells. Mossbergs, Remingtons, and Winchesters all have aftermarket stocks and such to make them even handier, like folding stocks, foreward pistol grips and mag extensions.
 
HEY!! Thanks tons for all the good input and info. I hear that mossbergs have the saftey on top and away from ther triger making it harder ina an emergency to deal with. Remington has thiers on the triger guard. .

My dad has a browming from the 1970's. Anyone know if they make a good home defense shot gun?
 
I prefer the top mount safety because it allows you to see the status of the switch. It also allows for both right and left handed use and is easily in position for your thumb.
 
To be a little more clear.....ANY shotgun is a good HD gun.

A HD would be preferred if it has a shorter barrel, simply because it's easier to use in tight spaces like hallways.

If you have a 32" barreled duck and goose gun, it will still do the job just as well as the very latest "Tactical" wonder-weapon.

The important thing is to have a shotgun, and whatever type of shot is appropriate to your dwelling type.

If you have access to a Browning shotgun and your comfortable with it, you're good to go.
 
Like I said, most people will tell you go with a pump.

Lots say they haven't ever short stroked one.

People at gun training academies and police training courses however see otherwise when a little bit of stress
is added to the training. They see short strokes happen.

Modern good semi-auto's are plenty reliable. With any defense weapon you need to practice with the ammo you will use. Not hard to figure out whether or not the gun will function with any given load. And no you don't need to go with $1000 shotgun to get reliability.

Personally, I would go with a SxS over a pump for HD/SD.

If you practice enough to mostly overcome short stroking, you will spend enough on extra ammo to pay for an auto.
 
esldude,

In all due respect I too must disagree with you. Now I like semi's and have competed and shot hundreds of thousands of rounds from semi's. I have a few ,druthers when it comes to semi's, for instance MY SX1 I trust for HD or serious situations. OH and it has a 28" bbl with NuLine external knurled chokes - I competed with this gun.

Dfariswheel , nailed it in his first post, re-enforces in his second. A Shotgun of any form is an effective HD weapon. It does not "have to have" anything - except ammo to work...this includes a bone stock shotgun in wood and blue with a long bbl.

Others have tried say in a nice way that when the situation is serious , a simple pump action , allows a repeatable firing shotgun to run no matter if the ammo has enough "ummph" or not.

Training is the Key. Always is , always will be. Good shooters are made - not born - Misseldine.

Meaning most good shooters, no matter what they shoot, be it handguns, rifles, or shotguns, no matter for what reason , Bulls-Eye, 3-Gun , Trap , Skeet , Sporting Clays - HOME Defense....Will have more monies invested in ammo and training than the price of the firearm.

You can bet the farm on that statement.

Not sure what 2k rounds of shotgun ammo figures out money wise all but 250 rds were target loads, the 250 were slugs fired in one day. the 2k fired in one week thrugh a 870 I paid $150 for, I didn't short shuck nary a time, and the greater monies spent was on ammo. That is why I and many others don't or rarely short shuck a pump.

Then again I have the right to be wrong, it is MY rear end on the line, so I choose to invest in ammo and training/ practice instead of buying - or trying to buy skill, targets, or new guns.

Beware the man whom shoots one gun - he knows it. - Anon.

In all due respect.

Steve
 
Sorry if I came off sounding like a jerk. Not my intention.

And I certainly agree that any good shooter will practice.

But often despite many believing they can work a pump under stress in a faultless manner, trainers report otherwise. They don't report that everyone short strokes a pump. Or that it happens a huge fraction of the time. But they report more short strokes occur than auto malfunctions.

Meaning in my opinion, a good reliable auto is more often going to work for most people. You might train often, you might not be likely to short stroke one, you might have developed just as much speed on follow up shots as with an auto. But good modern auto's do this for you with good reliability. Meaning more practice time can be spent on other things.

I know most folks consider the pump a no brainer for HD. I simply don't agree. But like someone said, if it is your tail on the line pick what you feel right about most naturally. As for me, if the auto I use works fine with full buckshot loads, that is good enough. Have no care how it might work with low power loads or birdshot. Because my HD shotgun will have buckshot in it.

Then that is another topic not agreed upon. Using birdshot at close ranges. I don't think it will be enough. So buckshot is what works as a man stopper. Buckshot is what I would have.
 
Why not bird shot?

I keep reading how people will not use bird shot in the house. Have you used a shot gun in the house?
A load of 6's fired from a hunting length shot gun in the house will be about 2 inches wide at the far side of the room at most. Unless you live in a much much bigger house than I. Most shotguns will print something like 90 % of the shot within a 30 inch circle at 30 yards, probably close to 100 % inside a 15 inch circle at 15 yard and seven inch circle at seven yards. Now in my house I have two places where I can get a 7 yard shot. Now think about it, a ounce and a 1/4 of lead at 1400 fps or so will make anyone sit down and rethink the life choices that got them to this point. A load of buckshot will also change a person's outlook but will very likely go through the wall behind your target and do a fine job of killing the neighbor if you live in an urban area.
I have shot a roadkill deer with a load of lead 4's and it blew a softball sized hole out the far side. I have also killed a feral dog inside a barn with 12 ga loaded with 71/2's and that shepard mix had a baseball sized hole all the way through at a range of a couple of feet of the end of the barrel.

If you want a reasonable police type shotgun, see if any gun shop in your area carries police trade ins. I am in minnesota and a couple of place regularly have trade ins. Last year I found both Remington 870's and Ithaca m37's for around two hundred bucks each. I have both and like both.
 
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