Defensive shooting

Gruber I'm afraid I disagree too.

I would much rather the police handle it than I do.

The police are trained in this. I am not.

Anytime I am aiming my gun at someone else and that person has a gun as well I am putting myself in moral danger. Obviously unless I politely ask I don't know if the intruder has a gun or not. I don't want my wife to be my widow.

My objective is to protect the lives of my wife and myself. It is not to kill the intruder(s).

That is a last resort.

Michael
 
CMichael,

My objective is to catch this person who thinks he can get away with breaking into homes.

My objective is to make my home the last one person they try to victimize.

My objective is to prevent someone elses wife from becomming a widow.

Hoping the Police show up in time to catch these parasites isn't good enough for me.

I wish more people felt as I do.
I wish more people seriously trained for home defense.

I know many Police Officers.
The average "politically correct" police department requires very little weapons training. The average police officer may not be as trained as you think to save your hide.

Good Luck!
Hope you never have to hurt anyone.
 
Gruber in no way do I believe that we shouldn't do anything to try and protect ourselves if there is an intruder.

I would certainly have rack my shotgun and I haven't decided if I will go looking for the intruder or not. It depends on the circumstances.

If I was investigating a strange sound, I would probably go looking.

If I was reasonable certain there was an intruder I would do the barricade thing.

One of the first things we would do if there was an intruder would be to call the police.

Suppose I intercepted the bad guys and I lost. If I didn't call the police there would be no cavalry and my wife would be at the mercy of the bad guys.

Luckily the cavalry is on our side. We should use that.

Michael
 
Getting back to the original 2 questions...

1. Shoulder, muzzle pointed 45 degrees downward, back against bedroom wall.

2. Shoulder, muzzle pointed at intruders torso, back against bedroom wall.

If you feel inclined to clear your residence yourself, take a pistol.
 
M Gruber, why wouldn't you call the po-po? They don't have to come but it sure do look a lot better when you make that call and it's played in court. The "cav" as CMichael sez.

The "friendly fire" I reference is what happens when one gets shot by their own team. I count the police as part of my team in this scenario. The police will come whether you call or they will march to the sound of the cannons. "Shots fired at Fashionable Bachelor Pad!!!" Bullets work the same whether they come from BGs or a pumped up 23 year old copper. Something to consider whether you sit tight or creep about in a tactical manner. Avoiding being shot by the first responders is just part of the beginning of Prob #2.

Even if you know your way around your house, you are still at a disadvantage if you go offensive. BG can sit tight and wait. Kabong! and take your weapon.

No one will take your gun because . . . .??? You have super gunfu retention skills? You don't have one? You can see through walls and furniture with your thermal scanning sunglasses like they had in the Selous Scouts? You don't think BGs learn disarming techniques in prison?

I do believe in my education and that no one can train enough. It has saved me more than once; however, I have an open mind and am willing to learn (even if it takes me longer than most--other right, Kirk). You learn tactics because you may HAVE to use them, not because you want to. I don't want to go creeping, but if I have to I will revert to my training (God save me).

Thanks for the luck; I need it. May I be lucky enough never to have this happen again.
 
:rolleyes:

OK, lets settle down and be honest, now.

You hear a noise downstairs at 0-dark-30. It might be nothing- heck, it probably is nothing- but something about it gives you pause. You listen intently, and hear what could be an intruder, or could be (insert innocent source here: family member raiding the fridge, cat on a bender, wind causing the house to creak, neighbor's noises coming into your townhouse, etc).

911? Or go get some more 411?

If I'm confronted with unambiguous "oh crap there is a man in my house" scenario, yeah- barricade, rack the shotty and call 911: "Get me police here and get them here yesterday!"

But if I called 911 every time I heard something hinky coming from downstairs, I'd be locked up as a nutcase by now. I have a noisy old house in a seedy neighborhood, where the neighbors work night shift and come and go from their house (which is 4' away from mine) at all hours. I also have 2 siamese cats that tend to go ballistic for no apparent reason at about 4AM, and have been known to knock stuff over ("feline grace," whatever).

Have I cleared my house? Many a time.

Mike
 
There is an old thumb rule to determine if the guy you just shot was a justified homicide.

If you were scared sh**less, then it is justified. If you were PO'd (ie this guy broke into MY house), then you are not justified.

The idea is to defend your life and stay alive, not teach this guy that he cannot steal your VCR.
 
I agree with Coronach that there are times when you clear your house because you heard something ambiguous. For me, it's usually been a critter jumping off the bird feeder, making it bang into the side of the house.

I certainly agree that if I KNOW there is an intruder in the house, I'm gathering up the missus and we're gonna wait behind a locked door. We'll call the police and I'll be there protecting my wife until they arrive. Given my experience with non-emergency calls to the local police department, they'll be there in about 2 minutes. Hopefully that will be fast enough. If a bad guy tries to come through the bedroom door before the police arrive, it's my job to stop him.

Gruber:

If you think my protecting my wife is "living on my knees," well, you're free to have your opinion, but I don't share it. My goals in such circumstances are, in order, 1) to protect my wife and 2) to protect myself. I can replace the TV. If I go playing macho man going after the perp and lose, then the perp will be free to have his way with my wife. I can think of no greater hell than to realize that my bravado lead to such terror for my wife. Even if I wound up in heaven, my guilt would be my own personal hell for all eternity.

Regarding advantages/disadvantages, I firmly believe that the advantage lies with the ensconced defender. Any bad guy coming after us is going to be coming through the bedroom door. There's a reason that doorways are called fatal funnels. The person who is moving is giving up clues to their location. The person who is stationary is giving up far fewer clues.

Concerning retention, I've taken 3 handgun retention classes. I've seen a 5' 100 lb woman take a gun away from a 6' 200 lb man. Technique and surprise can beat pure strength and perps practice disarming techniques in jail. Besides, at 160 lbs, I'm not that strong anyways.

Regarding the use of sights, at the distances in my house, I can easily point shoot with a handgun, let alone a long gun. Personally, I'd be focused on the perp's chest, not on my shotgun's sights at that distance. YMMV.

M1911
 
The objective of self-defense is protection of your self. One does not protect himself by inserting oneself into the kill zone of the BG.

Granted, different circumstances in the RLI, SAS, Dreaded D, or SEAL TEAM 38, Luxemburg Royal Mounted House Guard (insert fav gun shop commando unit) where you seek trouble. I ain't them and harbor no illusions that I am. The one former USN member that I spoke to at a skul regarding someone like him going creeping alone laughed loudly when I asked him if he would attempt to clear anything all by his lonesome. "Like Jesse James, my friend. Get a big gang--lots of guns and lots of help."

Enough for me, plus Problem #2. That's enough incentive not to go looking for trouble.

Call me a sissy. Yep, I'll run if I can. Call me a fraidy cat. Yep, my hands shook and I wet my pants. Call me unmanly. O.K., but I don't believe in self-defense to prove myself or others that I am a Warrior Prince; I just want to see tomorrow. Education is the way to do this.
 
So I am the one in this scenario that is "looking for trouble" huh?

Then I guess the parasite that has taken over my house is looking for "peace and eternal harmony".

You folks do what your gonna do.
Just think twice before you speak out against growing crime rates and violent felons using our prisons like resorts.

How many victims are there before these "bad guys" finally get held responsible for their actions?

Well, if the Police don't catch em', it's not your problem, right?
If the Courts let these predators back into society, it's not your problem, right?

I can't wait till Americans snap out of it and start taking PERSONAL responsibility for the society they live in.

911 and voting every few years ain't cutting it folks.......

M Gruber

PS M1911,
Perhaps you should consider a steel reinforced closet to bunker down in. Surely that is safer than the possibility of having to use your gun. Just don't forget to take your cell phone with you.
 
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Gruber:

Actually, I'd love to have a steel reinforced door to the master bedroom and I do have a cell phone in there. The police will be at my home within two minutes and I certainly agree that it would be a whole lot safer for me, and, more importantly, for my wife, if we hole up there until the police arrive in numbers. I can't protect my wife if I'm dead, and her safety means a whole lot more to me than any possession that we own.

Three or four young, strong police officers have a much better chance of successfully capturing a perp than I do alone (and that's before you consider that I'm of small stature, over 40, and have a bad back). If a perp has "taken over" my house, it won't be for very long.

If I have to use my firearm to protect my wife or myself, I will use it. But I will not jeapordize my wife's safety to stop someone from stealing my TV.

M1911
 
Before an intruder really breaks in, the best assistance a family can have is a guard dog. A good family dog like a bullmastiff or better yet, a pit-bull. Let the dog warn you long before the intruder even steps foot in your house. If your dog is in the bedroom with you before hand, let him seek the bastard out and then you take him. The best alarm is a dog and the best partner.;)
 
There have also been incidents where Cocker Spaniels have done the same. Personally, I prefer Dobermans (have 3) and German Shephards (had 2). Easier to house train...
 
There have been several high publicized cases here in Michigan lately were pitbulls were the culprit.

Just recently two pitbulls attacks a child and while mauling it to death ripped its ears off.

It seems that pitbulls seem significantly more vicious than other dogs.

Michael
 
Probably has more to do with the mindset of the dogs owner than the dog. Different breeds do have different traits, but overall, any dog is only as good as it's master.
 
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