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Defensive shooting
- Thread starter CMichael
- Start date
Are we talking houseclearing? If so, that is a chapter unto itself.
The general school of thought is that shotguns are an excellent barricade (read: not houseclearing) weapon, but can also serve in a CQB (read: houseclearing) role.
The trouble is that its a little hard to explain the tactics in a single post. Can anyone suggest a few good books?
The general school of thought is that shotguns are an excellent barricade (read: not houseclearing) weapon, but can also serve in a CQB (read: houseclearing) role.
The trouble is that its a little hard to explain the tactics in a single post. Can anyone suggest a few good books?
Looking for the intruder is not a good idea. Ever notice when you watch a police video show that when the cops clear a house there are a bunch of them? It is best to gather your family, call the police and sit tight.
Coronach:
"The Truth About Self Protection" by Massad Ayoob
Described as:
"The only complete guide to total self-protection in any situation - at home, in your car, on the streets."
Coronach:
"The Truth About Self Protection" by Massad Ayoob
Described as:
"The only complete guide to total self-protection in any situation - at home, in your car, on the streets."
Big can of worms here, Michael.
First,the guys are right. Get everyone behind you while someone calls 911, sit tight. Shoot from the shoulder.
Read Ayoob and Farnum. And you may want to see just how and where to set up a barricade in your house, WITH A SHOTGUN KNOWN TO BE EMPTY.
First,the guys are right. Get everyone behind you while someone calls 911, sit tight. Shoot from the shoulder.
Read Ayoob and Farnum. And you may want to see just how and where to set up a barricade in your house, WITH A SHOTGUN KNOWN TO BE EMPTY.
I live in a townhouse. Last night there was a banging from the downstairs. Not serious enough to believe it was an intruder but serious enough to investigate in my opinion.
I took down my shotgun just in case. It was my neighbors doing something in their place.
I would feel mighty foolish if I called the police and said there was an intruder.
Michael
I took down my shotgun just in case. It was my neighbors doing something in their place.
I would feel mighty foolish if I called the police and said there was an intruder.
Michael
What do you mean by "shooting from the hip"? Sounds like you mean to carry the shotgun loosely at your side, then swing it out if a threat presents himself and shoot without planting the stock. Try this technique, its not as fatiguing as the low ready and still lets you get off decent close point shots. Clamp your strong arm over the stock with the butt right underneath your armpit. This plants the butt firmly and lets you index the gun better. You can support the gun with just the strong hand, leaving your weak hand free for a flashlight, kid, door, etc. With a little practice, you can make accurate shots out to 5 meters or so. I find it to be a better grip than "from the hip" but easier to move around inside than at the low ready. The high ready (butt at your hip, barrel held just below eye level) is a little slow for me, since you have to move the butt up and you lose both hands. LAter.
First, why would you ever go looking?!?! Yikes, that's dangerous. Let the bad guy do the house clearing.
Second, according to the movies I have seen and gun rags I have read, it is much cooler to hold it at the hip. However, to hit anything because I am not a veteran of the RLI or the Selous Scouts unlike all the other members of my gun club, I need to hold it at the shoulder.
Indoor ready works when creeping around building with long guns. Some like Rhodesian ready when they go creeping so they can yank it back when the BG grabs it to beat you with it. I don't like to go creeping; it interferes with my dialing the cell phone for help. Sit tight, wait for the po-po and survive the night.
Second, according to the movies I have seen and gun rags I have read, it is much cooler to hold it at the hip. However, to hit anything because I am not a veteran of the RLI or the Selous Scouts unlike all the other members of my gun club, I need to hold it at the shoulder.
Indoor ready works when creeping around building with long guns. Some like Rhodesian ready when they go creeping so they can yank it back when the BG grabs it to beat you with it. I don't like to go creeping; it interferes with my dialing the cell phone for help. Sit tight, wait for the po-po and survive the night.
I would trade off being "tired" to losing my life because I didn't have my weapon properly braced on my shoulder.
I don't think that you can get too tired defending a Townhouse, especially if you are barricaded upstairs.
Sorry to say this but, sloppy techniques can get people killed.
I don't think that you can get too tired defending a Townhouse, especially if you are barricaded upstairs.
Sorry to say this but, sloppy techniques can get people killed.
Massad Ayoub(sp?) Stressfire II.
As far as 'why house-clear', if I was sure there was an intruder, the only clearing I would do is to gather my family. After that, let the BGs come to me. For a carry position, I would use "port arms". This allows surprisingly fast presentation (with some practice) and excellent retention. With the gun on the shoulder, it's a lot easier for a BG to reach around a corner and grab it from you, probably pulling you badly off balance at the same time. Anyway, my .02: read the book. It's an eye-opener.
As far as 'why house-clear', if I was sure there was an intruder, the only clearing I would do is to gather my family. After that, let the BGs come to me. For a carry position, I would use "port arms". This allows surprisingly fast presentation (with some practice) and excellent retention. With the gun on the shoulder, it's a lot easier for a BG to reach around a corner and grab it from you, probably pulling you badly off balance at the same time. Anyway, my .02: read the book. It's an eye-opener.
Sailor, kindly cite ONE real life example of a perp grabbing a shotgun and taking it away from a householder,tenant, etc, whether shoulder mounted or not.
While it COULD happen, I think my chances are better of hitting the Lottery for a bundle....
Perps have no rep to uphold, no compulsion to complete THIS crime, and when faced with force, 99% plus will merely try to leave. Wackouts included.
While it COULD happen, I think my chances are better of hitting the Lottery for a bundle....
Perps have no rep to uphold, no compulsion to complete THIS crime, and when faced with force, 99% plus will merely try to leave. Wackouts included.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
Dave, I agree with Sailor (and Ayoob). If (very big if) I was to wander sround the house with my SG, port arms is not a bad way to do so. Still having a bit of trouble figuring out why I'd so so..
Retention is a concern - the point about moving with your SG mounted seems legitimate to me. Probable dis-armament? Very unlikely, but worth thinking about in a larger sense - don't go wandering (or clearing) with a room broom.
Giz
Retention is a concern - the point about moving with your SG mounted seems legitimate to me. Probable dis-armament? Very unlikely, but worth thinking about in a larger sense - don't go wandering (or clearing) with a room broom.
Giz
OK, Sam. Our experiences color our decisions. In the unlikely event I have to clear the house, low port sounds good. In the extremely unlikely event someone tries to grab my shotgun, the following sequence of responses is likely to happen.
250 lbs of furious retired prison guard heads to the floor.I retain control of the weapon, and spin it around its long axis. Easy to do if the perp resists.
As soon as the muzzle covers any significant portion of the perp's anatomy, the trigger gets slapped.
As soon as I ascertain that perp's threat level is very low, I proceed on.
I doubt there's many folks out there capable of holding me up on the other end of a shotgun.
Or I let the fool have the shotgun, and while he's trying to figure out what to do with it, I show him why I left 20 years of working in Maximum and Medium Security prisons behind with all my front teeth intact. Like I said, our experiences color our responses.
However, events that would require me to clear the house are very unlikely. Other McCs on other floors will have access to weapons, and there's other security precautions in effect. An oz of prevention...
250 lbs of furious retired prison guard heads to the floor.I retain control of the weapon, and spin it around its long axis. Easy to do if the perp resists.
As soon as the muzzle covers any significant portion of the perp's anatomy, the trigger gets slapped.
As soon as I ascertain that perp's threat level is very low, I proceed on.
I doubt there's many folks out there capable of holding me up on the other end of a shotgun.
Or I let the fool have the shotgun, and while he's trying to figure out what to do with it, I show him why I left 20 years of working in Maximum and Medium Security prisons behind with all my front teeth intact. Like I said, our experiences color our responses.
However, events that would require me to clear the house are very unlikely. Other McCs on other floors will have access to weapons, and there's other security precautions in effect. An oz of prevention...
Townhouse?!? as in multiple families or residents?
Excuse me while I point out that you have no business going armed to investigate the neighbors noisemaking or any other beyond your threshold.
What if said neighbors heard noise, called the law, and armed officers meet CMichael on the stairs toting SG- shoulder mount or port/carry!!
Seems exceedingly dangerous to me.
Feel free to call the neighbors, call the law, whatever- but consider the consequences of going armed beyond your threshold.
I sometimes enjoy these tactical whatifs but seems like a basic component got overlooked here.
Just MHO.
Excuse me while I point out that you have no business going armed to investigate the neighbors noisemaking or any other beyond your threshold.
What if said neighbors heard noise, called the law, and armed officers meet CMichael on the stairs toting SG- shoulder mount or port/carry!!
Seems exceedingly dangerous to me.
Feel free to call the neighbors, call the law, whatever- but consider the consequences of going armed beyond your threshold.
I sometimes enjoy these tactical whatifs but seems like a basic component got overlooked here.
Just MHO.
I'm tired of this prevailing "911" attitude.
If you own a firearm for home defense then while you are training to use it for the reason you have it.......sure, barricade yourself in a backroom and wait for the police to come and start the paperwork.
After awhile, if you are seriouse about defending your life in your home, you can leave the "911" behind.....call it afterwards if need be.
Train as seriously as this topic demands.
I'm not standing by while some social disease takes over my home. There was a time when I would...but not anymore.
Criminals need to be caught.
If they are armed then they need to be killed.
Sorry if that offends anyone.
If you own a firearm for home defense then while you are training to use it for the reason you have it.......sure, barricade yourself in a backroom and wait for the police to come and start the paperwork.
After awhile, if you are seriouse about defending your life in your home, you can leave the "911" behind.....call it afterwards if need be.
Train as seriously as this topic demands.
I'm not standing by while some social disease takes over my home. There was a time when I would...but not anymore.
Criminals need to be caught.
If they are armed then they need to be killed.
Sorry if that offends anyone.
Al Thompson
Staff Alumnus
M, the reason most of us who have had some training don't like to consider clearing the house is that we've done it enough to realize that the odds are stacked against the clearer. The party who is set in a good place with a firearm (or baseball bat for that matter) is way ahead of the party who's moving.
Interestingly enough, having the local law lend a hand is not a bad thing IMHO. The sooner you invite them, the more friends they bring.
If you can get the training, it really expands your horizons.
Giz
Interestingly enough, having the local law lend a hand is not a bad thing IMHO. The sooner you invite them, the more friends they bring.
If you can get the training, it really expands your horizons.
Giz
M Gruber, as you go creeping to combat eeevil, and BG #1 grabs your weapon and BG#2 hits you upside the haid with a baseball bat, you can use your special shoes to run up walls to circle behind them and dispatch them with swift karate kicks just like Chuck Norris!
You should not go looking for trouble:
1. You've just told the po-pos where you are. You aren't there and the po-pos are looking for a "man with a gun." Look, there's one now. Friendly fire is not friendly when it hits you.
2. You have now given the BG the advantage of playing defense.
3. Creeping around a narrow environment with a long gun (or pistol) is dangerous as BG if he didn't bring his own weapon, can now try to use yours.
Giz is dead on as usual. Go to skul. The more you train, the less you will want to fight.
You should not go looking for trouble:
1. You've just told the po-pos where you are. You aren't there and the po-pos are looking for a "man with a gun." Look, there's one now. Friendly fire is not friendly when it hits you.
2. You have now given the BG the advantage of playing defense.
3. Creeping around a narrow environment with a long gun (or pistol) is dangerous as BG if he didn't bring his own weapon, can now try to use yours.
Giz is dead on as usual. Go to skul. The more you train, the less you will want to fight.
KS F
Wow.
I think you need to read my post again....
1) If the "po-po" have not been called why would they be in the mix.....what "friendly fire" are you talking about....
2) The social disease in my house has no idea what direction I am coming from or that I'm coming at all, they don't know my house (especially in the dark), and they are busy doing their thing.....
They are not at an advantage in my house.....I am.
3) Nobody is gonna get my gun KS F. Nobody.
75% of the folks out there can't find their way out of a brown bag and should be trained to barricade and wait for the cops to show up with the Insurance paperwork they will need.
No wonder this country is a Criminals Paradise.
Not my house.
Sounds like you have believed ALL your training.
If it is written in a book by So-in-So.....that's enough for you.
Good luck!
Wow.
I think you need to read my post again....
1) If the "po-po" have not been called why would they be in the mix.....what "friendly fire" are you talking about....
2) The social disease in my house has no idea what direction I am coming from or that I'm coming at all, they don't know my house (especially in the dark), and they are busy doing their thing.....
They are not at an advantage in my house.....I am.
3) Nobody is gonna get my gun KS F. Nobody.
75% of the folks out there can't find their way out of a brown bag and should be trained to barricade and wait for the cops to show up with the Insurance paperwork they will need.
No wonder this country is a Criminals Paradise.
Not my house.
Sounds like you have believed ALL your training.
If it is written in a book by So-in-So.....that's enough for you.
Good luck!