Deer Hunters: Are you satisfied now?

W

Will Beararms

New member
In this day of instant gratification, there's nothing like ponying up a cool $2,500.00 and heading down to South Texas for a near guaranteed trophy hunt for Whitetails. Heck just get positioned near a feeder and when it goes off here comes Pavlov's Deer to his waterloo.

I have never figured out why killing a deer eating from a feeder is even considered hunting nor have I understood how a many gets satisfaction from chasing his prey in the confines of land protected by game fences.

My Grandmother was Choctaw Indian and I like to think I learned a thing or two from her before whe went on to be with the Lord at the age of 83. "Mamaw" taught us to listen in the woods while slipping. If we heard much activity, we knew we were not detected. If things were very quiet, we learned it was best to stop and take a seat somewhere hidden until the forest family thought the coast was clear.

"Mamaw" also taught us that feeding animals often caused them to think there was more food than the land could actually produce and this lead to over breeding and over population which means eventual disease and ultimate death.

If you hunt and live in Texas, you know that the State Officials have recently banned the importation of Whitetail Deer in the state in a effort to curb chronic wasting disease---------------a malady similar to Mad Cow. Many think that Deer contract and spread this ailment from eating the excrement of other deer. This is usually the case when there are too many deer per acre which can result from Game fences and excessive feeding.

I know that all in America is tied to the almighty dollar but it might be time for us to think twice about the methods being used to "manage" deer herds. I believe God knows what is best and though we are to be stewards of the beasts and foul, we must be careful not to overdo it.
 
By and large I agree, so long as you realize that these deer-fenced pastures may commonly be several thousand acres. And, the populations within them are held to just below the carrying capacity of the range.

However, the "how" of the style of hunt is separate from the "why" of disease. That is, free-ranging deer aren't the problem. The problem is the pen-raising and confinement in too-small an area. Seems that this is where the problems of brain disease occur. The relatively long incubation period allows released animals to spread the disease.

I'm dubious about "...Deer contract and spread this ailment from eating the excrement of other deer." Seems to me there would have to be a dietary deficiency for this to happen, and pen-raised deer are pampered little darlings. Why has this not happened within herds of goats, cousins to deer?

In some areas without this commercialized hunting, the deer are way too numerous for the good of their habitat. I have seen a three-acre oat-patch with well over a hundred deer feeding there in the evening, and not one would break 85 pounds, live weight and soaking wet.

Back to the hunting for a moment: Look at the area bounded by I-37 from San Antonio to Corpus Christi and US 90 west from San Antonio to Del Rio. Much of this is the "Texas Brush Country" or "Brasada". Much of it consists of near-impenetrable jungles of mesquite and prickly pear. Hunting in the classic sense of walking and stalking won't be productive. Zero, zip, nada. That's the why of stands and high-seat hunting vehicles. A feeder is used to draw in does, and Ol' Bucky circles around in the brush, sometimes offering a shot. Bucks typically don't go to feeders during shooting light, except those young, stupid bucks which commonly are not allowed to be shot.

Art
 
I second much of the above, but if all the leases were $2500, I'd be hunting meat at the Kroger! My lease is in the hill country, a place called rattle snake hill. There is nothing but shale rock, salt cedar and cactus, so yes, I do throw out feed for the critters in the dry season because there is little to eat. I may not feed this year as the welcome rain is making everything bust out in green and they have plenty. I see nothing wrong with stand hunting as it gives me the chance to see what much of the deer look like health wise, and to cull off any obviously sick. I also take doe as well as bucks in order to keep the herd down a bit. Your choice if you want to play Cochise, but there's not one thing wrong with stand hunting. As stated-the big guys won't be there when the dinner bell goes off, but during the rut, they are cruising for the girls in a big way.
 
If you need to hunt deer in any sized fenced in area then that is a shame because there are deer everywhere, and if you hunt hard enough you can take a trophy class deer just about anywhere there are good deer populations.

I can't understand why anyone would want to hunt with a high fence operation or over bait. Just to many oppurtunities outside of those high fence operations and bait piles. Flame away!

Save your money and hunt hard!

Ron
 
PALongbow, the high fences are NOT to keep deer IN. They are intended to keep other deer OUT!

You have this multi-thousand-acre pasture. You build stock tanks, plant growies, put out mineral blocks per wildlife biologist's instructions, and otherwise have a ton of money put in to create a desireable habitat. Your next notion is to not have too many deer for the carrying capacity of the range.

But if you build a desireable smorgasbord, I guarantee you that you'll find your pasture overly full of deer! And thus the high fence.

Now, an eight foot fence is more than just one dollar per foot, and 2,500 acres requires around ten miles of fence. Dozer time is some $50 to $74 an hour to build a stock tank. Add in bunkhouses and maintenance equipment. Add in the purchase price per acre ($400 and up) and the cost of all the other "stuff". Then figure you have maybe 25 or so shootable trophy bucks. How much money would YOU charge, in your $1.5 to $2 million operation? Balance it against a 4% CD at your local bank.

Regardless of your or my idea about "hunting", remember that there are many people whose lifestyles absolutely preclude having the time required to really learn hunting skills. This does not keep them from enjoying such outdoor time as is available to them. Using a stand is a great help to them, to keep them voting against the PETA proposals and against the gun grabbers. Baiting is just part of this, and it's not required that you and I use it.

FWIW, Art
 
I agree with Mr. Eatman


This type of hunting is not something that I would do or condone.

But if it gets somebody new interested in hunting and firearms, then so be it. More than likely, they will abandon this way of hunting, IMHO, for a more sporting approach. We (gun folks) need all of the support we can get.

Stinger
 
What occurs in these "managed deer habitats" in Texas or anywhere else is not hunting. It is just gratification for the sake of killing something and having your picture taken with the "trophy".
If you can not learn hunting skills because of the time involved, as stated in an earlier post, then what you are doing is not "hunting" because you have not developed the skills to hunt. This is just killing for the sake of killing....nothing more, nothing less.
I have enjoyed hunting ever since I was thirteen, forty years ago. One of the things I developed, along with my hunting skills, is a certain respect for the life I have taken. I have taken a lot of game in forty years, I am still developing my skills, and I have past up a lot of game for various reasons that at that particular time seemed correct to me. Hunting is more than just killing. Shooting a whitetail that comes to the water tank the same time every day, and has been conditioned to do so, is not hunting!:(
 
I agree with much of what Art says...I hunt Del Rio, and it makes for a painful experience to try to do a lot of stalking (you will be pulling thorns out of your butt for weeks).....very unproductive....You can sit and hunt over areas without feeders without stalking, but deer are spread way out here, and it might take a while to bag one without feeders.

I have a friend who has a lease where it is PROHIBITED to walk more than 50 yards from your blind, and stalking will get you kicked off the Lease in an effort to keep accidents down.

I do believe that stalking and Bow hunting are much more challenging and fair, but it just is not allowed or is not practical in some cases.
 
Rebeldon,

'Gotta get those non-resident hunting license costs down.:D I was a FL resident a few years back. Used to go to AL for the larger deer. Then a license war started. Today it generally costs $100-150 for a Floridan, Alabaman or Georgian to hunt across the borders in each others' states. 'Used to cost $35-50. I really miss hunting Alabama.
 
Getting up before dawn, putting on the clothes that you washed in baking soda and water the night before.

No smoking--make sure you have no smell on you.

Eat a light breakfast, make a sandwich or two.

Final check: rifle, ammunition, rubber gloves? Pocket knife, and skinning/dressing knife? Bag for the organs, and a small shovel; salt and a lot of clean water. Get the tag and go.

Cast around when you get there--find the scrape. Look around--sling taped so it won't rattle. There--a track. Looks like a good sized one. Will you follow? How could you not?

Slow and steady when you come to the fresh tracks. Go to the side; down on your knees. Move slowly--move those twigs out of the way.

Tracks are fresher now. Quietly, slowly, work the action. Slide one round into the chamber. Safety on? Double check. Keep those eyes open, now!

Now, you're glassing more than crawling. There--you see them!

A big eight point stands there. He has his harem with him, but you see him clearly. Range--about 300 yards. Yes, you could snipe him right there. But why? Give the animal a sporting chance. Test yourself.

Time for the high crawl. Move slow--careful not to move the grass and brush too much. Make sure the wind's in your face--move around if you have to.

Move when you can--when he has his head down, or seems to interested in something else.

Time crawls by to you. Your whole world consists of lifting one arm and leg, sliding it forward, transferring your weight, then repeating with the other side. Clear the twigs and rocks out of the way. Keep moving. Always keeping him in your sight.

Now, you're at about 150 yards' range. You go still, pulling your rifle slowly to you. At last--the familiar feel of the buttstock in proper alignment. You slowly assume the prone, locking the rifle into your body.

Now the sight picture and alignment. See the antlers, the deep chest. The crosshairs settles on the lower chest. You ease the safety off. You breathe twice more, then lock solid.

In that instant, he is yours.

You press the trigger. The rifle booms; through the scope you see the flash.

The deer drops immediately from the 150 grain softpoint you just shattered his heart with.

Quickly, you're up! You run forward, toward the deer. As you get closer, you chamber another round--just in case. You approach from his back.

A prod from the muzzle gets no response. You see the exit wound, gaping open.

A final check--touch the eye. No response.

You unload and clear, placing the unfired cartridge in your pocket.

A quiet moment--a short prayer, thanks to God for our ability to harvest our food. And a thanks for granting this fine animal the courtesy of a quick, clean death. Now, a small handful of grass, placed gently in the deer's mouth to signify his last meal. Then, out with the tools--it's dressing time!

That, ladies, gentlemen, boys and girls, is a HUNT.

The acts described concerning game farms is nothing more than execution.

There IS a difference.
 
Sorry, but high fences, feeders and artificially manipulated deer herds are NOT helping us in the propaganda war against PETA.

For every lazy hunter who sits up in a stand and assasinates a deer under a feeder, the unsportsmanlike spectacle of it all, probably recruits a hundred new ANTI-hunters! Just look at the type of responses that it's generating here among hunters.

We need to clean up our image, not cater to a few slobs with more money that morals.
 
Mr. Eatman,

In my opinion if a man doesn't have time to hone their hunting skills then they don't belong in the woods.

I know in certain parts of the country folks hunt much differently than we do here in PA, however I would not personally elect to hunt any high fence operation or bait pile no matter how successful I might be by doing so. My opinion of the high fence operations is that its nothing more than farming for deer where deer are managed for big money and those willing to pay for it.

Ron
 
I can see both sides here, but I don't see that big of a differnence in the hunting styles. I bow hunt also. I locate bedding areas and feeding areas. Then I find a good place to wait and I assassinate the poor creature when it gets up for happy hour, or is draggin it's butt home in the morning. Sometimes it takes me a year or two of freezing MY butt off to get one. I'm another one with minimal free time, and I'm also still trying too improve my hunting skills. Is this much different then a guided hunt over natural food and bedding areas and/or a Tejas hunt over owner supplied chow? Yeah....a little maybe, but not THAT different. Personally I wouldn't want to take an African species on a ranch like that, but deer are pretty adaptable to the environment , and are probably about as wild as our semi-urbanized Eastern Whitetail.
 
First, let me say that I thoroughly enjoy hunting, with firearms...that said:

If you really want to make it sporting, drop the rifle.

Instead of sneaking up to a whopping 150 yards, go ahead and sneak up to point blank.

Politely tap the deer on the rump and challenge him to a duel.

Now, picture that Moutain Dew commercial with the ram and let's get it on.

Some people are so eager to criticise others for the way they hunt. Sure, you may be doing it the same way your Grandpa, or Great-GrandPa used to hunt...stalking and shooting, good for you.

But believe it or not, there was hunting before there was firearms. Shocking, I know. How do your hunting techniques stack up compared to those who had to take game with rocks, sticks, and their bare hands???


Stinger
 
I don't think I've ever been arrogant enough to put down those who lack my skills. I always figured folks do the best they can with what they have to work with, or do the best they can within the time available. As long as they're honest in their hearts, that's good enough for me. I ain't much on "holier than thou".

And it does not matter one iota if you hunt while plumb nekkid and drop on Bambi from a tree limb and bite him to death: PETA ain't gonna cut you one bit of slack. It's the kill that's evil, in their minds, and the method has nothing to do with anything.

As far as I'm concerned, anybody at TFL is absolutely free to believe as they wish. My only concern is that some honest thought be given to one's position on issues, rather than acting from an emotional viewpoint.

The fact that I tend to at least mildly disapprove of high-dollar hunt operations is meaningless. If the big bucks :) allow a rancher to keep his place intact and not sell out for "ranchette" development, great. If the habitat is improved, great. If people on both ends of the checkbook get pleasure, great.

One last thing: High-dollar hunting is maybe 5% of Texas hunting. It's probably 95% of legislative influence for hunters. Anything that helps little-guy hunting is a Good Thing, and it's one of the few times when "one size fits all" legislation works well.

Art
 
Thank you Art-took the words out of my mouth. This hunting snobbery is a load and does nothing to promote the sport. Where I hunt, the owner charges $300 a gun, and is really the only income he has because the ground is too rocky and unstable to raise cattle, and otherwise, the ground is pretty worthless. No, we don't have game fences nor do we have people to go out and collect your game-it ain't the Y.O. ranch. More like the Y.O.U. and the lone prairie. You will be making a 200-300 yard shot on average, and you will be having a really fun time tripping over shale/cactus/snakes trying to get there. No alchohol or drugs in the camp, and half the hunters are over 70. Have heard some great stories outta these guys, and thats part of the hunt too:D
 
Lets look at the impression that hunting has on the non-hunting public for a minute. Outdoor programming has portrayed the hunter to be a person that gets pointed in the right direction and set over bait or on some high fence operation, and the only thing the hunter has to do is pull the trigger with no scouting or thought process involved as to where the stand should be positioned. To me that paints a negative picture for hunters because technically your not hunting, your just waiting for that 10 point buck to appear that has been scouted out for you prior to your arrival in which you paid the big bucks to harvest.

If you choose to hunt this way than thats fine with me but think about the image your portraying to the non-hunting public. I don't get concerned about animal rights groups because your not going to change their mind about hunting, its the people riding the fence on how they feel about hunting that I'm concerned about.

BluRidgeDav - You nailed it right on the head!

Ron
 
So, your idea of hunting doesn't include stand hunting? Okay, lets deny all the disabled the opportunity to go out on a hunt. Feel better now? :rolleyes:
The point being is there ought to be room for everyone in the woods, so be careful who you slap a stereotype on before you make blanket statements. My prothesist lost both of his legs in combat action with the marines, yet he goes out on his two pegs, takes them off and climbs a tree and "assassinates" food for his family every year, with a muzzleloader, bow and rifle. I don't think you have thought it through.
 
PALongbow: Getting away from deer for a moment: The law requires that a person with livestock fence them in. All ranchers fence their pastures. Avoids lawsuits, since if your cow gets on a road and is hit by a car, you're liable. (All except Presidio County, which is open range. Hit a cow, you bought a prize, blue-ribbon pure-bloodline cow. At least that's what the owner will call that skinny, mangy critter.)

Antelope don't--won't--jump fences. Not even over fences that deer hop across without much care.

Should antelope never be hunted?

Art
 
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