Deer Drives- I had to think a few days before posting this

So, what about bow hunters. It is quite common for bow hunters to fail to kill the deer or knock it down so it can be retrieved. Do you think that arrow just falls out and the deer heals? If so that isn't exactly how it works. Most guys arrows/bolts are far from sterile. That puncture wound gets infected, then festers, and the deer days over days, a week, or maybe two. Do you still hang out with bow hunters?
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The bowhunting excuse is always brought by gun hunters who choose to ignore ethical hunting practices. (I'm not saying you) Fact is, it's nonsense. Responsible Bow hunters are no more likely to wound or kill and not recover deer than are responsible gun hunters. In fact, in all my years of hunting, I have lost ZERO deer that I have hit with the bow and ONE that I hit with the gun.

I wonder how those irresponsible hunters would feel about the coyotes appetite if they were the ones laying in the forest with a deer slug through their intestines?!

If you can't kill it, don't shoot at it. The type of hunting is irrelevent.
 
But, you might just as well have made a gut shot, and the poor deer suffers in the forest for days.
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That is not entirely true. We would run dogs on accasion in NC and every running deer i've hit too far back (gut shots), never once had to track. Usually, don't know why, but never tracked a gut shot, when I've tracked double lung shots for almost 300 to 400 yards.
 
Putting someone else's tag on an animal that you shot is also considered "party hunting". This is also illegal in most states.
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Primarily true w/ exceptions. Wyo has a caveat that if a disabled hunter wounds an animal, his/her hunter companion may pursue and kill said animal and then put the disabled hunters tag upon it. I have been carrying a disabled companion card for a number of years for my parents who are disabled.

Franken, what reg book are you utilizing? I have yet to find the reference in the general regs.
elkman06
 
I go with Shortwave's definition of a drive, Dad and I been hunting that way for years and it works fine. You have to take your time and put in the hours scouting ahead of time. We knew where deer holed up and what funnel they'd head for when disturbed. Once participated in a drive in Conn. with wife's cousins hunt club. I was a stander, in a treestand, little hectic for my taste, only the drivers got shots. I do see the results, it was a big swamp and not a lot of options on how to hunt it. While productive I prefer smaller groups, easier to control. I do give the OP's club credit tho good way to give the youngsters greater odds. hopefully they're getting the whole course from dad (or mom)
 
Hey I think I might have participated in a Drive, not for deer but for elk.

I hunt on horse back. I like to get in an area where I have a good view of possilble crossing points and set down with my coffee and wait. Down below me are people running around on 4 wheelers scattering elk all ove the place, and they end up going where the ATVs cant go. Where I'm setting drinking coffee and watching the world go by.

Oh did I mention I'm a lazy hunter.

A party hunt in wyoming is where a group, 2 or more, put in for a group hunt, where if one gets the permit, all do.

An example I took my wife and Grandaughter on a "party hunt" last month, meaning we applied for the permit for our chosen area in one package so we dont end up drawing tags all over the state. I think its a pretty good system.
 
Group hunts are great, but in Wyoming we don't do intended drives, because they're illegal. But sitting on on a north ridge high above all those ATV'ers running around below, can make for fine hunting. :D
 
The bullet whinging by makes no sound that I could hear (been a few near calls), but it's a HELL of a snap when it hit's an object near you...
 
It is illegal in Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, and last time I checked - Oregon
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If you can point me to the Oregon reference, I would be thankful. I am a Hunter Ed instructor here, and, to my knowledge, that is not correct.

It is illegal to have someone who did not shoot the animal, tag the animal.

It is quite common for bow hunters to fail to kill the deer or knock it down so it can be retrieved.
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You do realize that there are bow hunters who would make the same ignorant statement about rifle hunters, don't you?

I hunt both ways and I will agree that there are a lot of great bow hunters and a lot of great rifle hunters, but there are also slobs on both sides.
 
Ill have to reread my 'Great American Deer Hunt' and see what it says. I suspect those hunts are different from what is described here.

Several hunters out walkking in the woods is not unsporting here.
 
Franken, what reg book are you utilizing? I have yet to find the reference in the general regs.
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Wyoming doesn't have a regulation on the books, specifically outlawing the practice. However, every person I have talked to in the WY Fish and Game has made the essentially the same statement: "If some one gets caught doing it, it will be considered Harassment of Wildlife."
I called the Cheyenne headquarters (307-777-4600), and the Laramie regional office (307-745-4046) to verify today. The 'interpretation' still stands: Push the game toward hunters affiliated with you, and you're harassing - even if the animals are casually walking.
(Wyoming, Idaho, and Utah pretty much consider any "pushing" of game, without the personal intent to tag an animal, harassment.)


If you can point me to the Oregon reference, I would be thankful.
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Apparently, it depends upon who you talk to in Oregon.
Today, I called the LaGrande regional Wildlife Office (541-963-2138), and the State Police (LaGrande 541-963-7175). I was misinformed in 2003 or 2004, when I checked into the regs. There is no regulation on the books, in Oregon.
However.... some officials will tell you it is clearly a Harassment of Wildlife violation, and others will tell you, "that's just group hunting".
(One officer responded with the quote. Two officers responded with harassment. An official in the Regional Office said it would depend upon situational factors, and interpretation by the field officers.)
 
Wyoming doesn't have a regulation on the books
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Thanks for the clarification, I've been looking at the regs every year for 35yrs and had not seen it either.

So much like another thread recently posted, this will be an issue open to interpretation on a game wardens' part. Considering it is common practice to let hunters off on a trailhead, or head of a canyon, or on one side of a timber stand,,,only for the hunters to meet at a central vehicle or point where a ride is waiting then one could make the argument that this is a drive. Hmm, I might take those odds in court. Of course like I said before conducting a drive over a mile long canyon might not look like a drive very much at all.

The one thing about this that I believe needs to be emphasized, and this goes back to the OPs' intent I believe. There are instances where too many people get involved, and too much coordination has to exist for this type of situation to be SAFE. I personally would not get involved in this type of calamity with, a) people I don't intimately know, and b) too many people at once.
Good discussion, I hope noone got offended.
elkman06
The other part that had me a bit puzzled was that I just got done going through the Hunter Safety course put on by the Wyo G&F w/ my daughter and no reference was made to this. Perhaps they should change the curriculum a bit.
 
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i used to participate in very large deer drives here with a hunting club and while i enjoyed the fellowship and the food, the hunting just wasnt worthwhile and very very dangerous. I remember one year a deer came back thru the drivers and one guy took several buckshot in the lower back. Another year somehow the drivers got out of sync and i was aiming at something coming thru the pines and it turned out to be a driver. He never even saw me but it truly struck me just what a dangerous proposition this was and i think that was my last year. Everybody has to be knowledgeable of the area, and on the same page. You have someone bring a young hunter, or a once a year hunter....etc, and next thing you know its a blown hunt or worse. Small drives i have no problems with though.
 
I have been sitting on a hillside watching other hunters and had a game warden ask me if they were pushing for me. Told him I saw where they were heading and was waiting to see if anything came out.
Around here if they can prove you are using a drive, or pushing for someone else you will get a harrassment of wildlife ticket.
Utah and Idaho both enforce this law very regularly, Wyoming does also, I was asked last year if I was pushing antelope with my truck to another group of hunters.
The only way to get away with it here is either dont get caught or if everyone has a tag and a legal weapon for the game being pursued.
One of the owners of the local gun store got a ticket 6 years ago for having his boys go through a stand of quakies and kicking out a buck which he shot.
$250.00 for each violation, all told it cost him $750.00, and the deer.:mad:
 
careful

For many years, I bowhunted exclusively on a lease w/ about 12-16 gun hunters. They blasted away at nearly any legal deer that exposed itself on ROWs and greenfields that they believed was in their effective range. Many deer were hit and lost. Few had a grasp of ballistics or doping the wind and most were not practiced rifleman.

So go easy on bowhunters losing deer. I have personally seen deer that have survived arrow wounds. (killed MUCH later by other hunters)

If you want to see some bowhunters doing effective deer drives,watch the old Bohuntng October Whitetails w/ the Wentzels and Rick Blaise.

In my youth, I've in a fair number of gun drives, by far the most effective were silent drives.
 
For the first many years of hunting I can say that there were very few times I ever participated in a deer drive. Frankly it is not my style of hunting that I like. However each drive resulted in dead deer thus were successful. I can say that most camps started driving by mid morning on the first day.

Now that I no longer hunt the big woods of Northern Pa I have participated in deer drives many times. That is just the way people hunt where I live. I can tell you that when the hunting is slow every drive I have been in over the past 10 years has produced dead deer. In fact I have shot 9 out the 10 deer since 1998 off of drives. The other just happen to walk out of my corn field as I was walking to my spot.

I still do not like driving deer, I worry about the shooters at the end of the drive. We average 20 deer a year from drives and I have never seen a deer lost due to a poor shot from the group I hunt with. We have never had a close call for the poster or driver during a drive. However I will freely admit when I am on post I find a big tree and place it between the drivers and me. The good point though is that we usually set up at the end of the woods in key locations in the field. Since drivers seldom shoot at a deer most of the deer are shot as the hit the open field giving you a clear sight picture of any dangerous shots.

The strange part of my hunting works like this. When I hunted the big woods and shot at a running deer I never hit one. All flat misses and believe me with snow on the ground I would have known if I hit any of them. For some reason I have never ever missed a running deer in the open field. In fact they have all been one shot and drop.
 
I would think it would be a hard case to prove "Harrasment of Wildlife" if everyone involved had a valid tag in possesion.

Now, if you have a bunch of people without tags trying to push in an organized fashion, I think that would be a slam dunk "harrasment".

Of course, the flip-side of the harrasment is that anti-hunters are not allowed to try and drive the animals out of an area either.

YMMV
 
To be deemed "molestation of wildlife" in florida, one must intentionally single out one animal and give chase with no intent other then to terrorize the bugger... ie:chasing with 4 wheeler or dogs just for S&G. The exception is our "deer dog training days" in which deer doggers can run deer but without guns. Just to get them warmed up for general gun...
Brent
 
Sure wish we could "deer dog" around here!

I've shot many deer while on drives. Usually just 2-5 guys total, small swails and fields, we knew where everyone would be and that they could be trusted. We hunted a lot together, not just deer.

BTW: I've never noticed a diffence in taste between the fast moving deer and the ones shot standing.
 
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