Debates are a Waste of Time

MicroBalrog

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Why Bother Watching the Infomercials?
-- Watching the televised Presidential Debates is a
waste of time

by Jim Babka

It wasn't always this way, but in recent years the
highlights of the Presidential campaigns are the
infomercials.

And there's a big infomercial starting tonight - the
so-called Presidential Debates.

These aren't really "debates" in the tradition of
Lincoln-Douglas - or even Kennedy-Nixon. They're 90
minute television commercials for the presidential
campaigns - stage-managed, joint-appearances by the
front-running candidates.

The other major infomercials are the conventions.
Sure, some civically-minded folks complain that
network TV coverage-time has plummeted. But that's
because the conventions have lost their drama - and
their ratings.

* The last time Republicans had any suspense at
their convention was 1976 - Reagan v. Ford.
* The last time Democrats had any suspense at
their convention was 1980 - Kennedy v. Carter.

Major party conventions are now heavily scripted,
well-rehearsed, infomercials designed, not to choose
a nominee, but to promote the party's propaganda for
the Fall campaign.

Personally, I'd rather watch "Everybody Loves Raymond."

The nationally-televised Debates are no different.
They too are well-scripted. The two major candidates
choose the questioners, topics, and terms, including
detailed instructions about set design, where their
guy stands, etc.

This year Vernon Jordan represented Kerry. James
Baker represented Bush.

The two major party campaigns (not the media, not the
Debate Commission) emerge with a Memorandum of
Understanding, telling the Debate Commission just how
to put on their debates. This year's Memorandum
includes the following (standard) verbiage...

The parties agree that they will not (1) issue
any challenges for additional debates, (2) appear
at any other debates or adversarial forum with
any other presidential or vice presidential
candidate, or (3) accept any network air time
offers that involve a debate format or otherwise
involve the simultaneous appearance of more than
one candidate.

In other words, keep anything dramatic and
unpredictable, like minor party candidates, off the
stage.

If the Debates continue as they're presently
constituted, then I predict there will come a day
when one of the network presidents gets wise and
decides to do a highlight show, instead of cover the
whole thing live.

That network president will be pilloried by the
press. But he or she will get an edge in the ratings.

And the other networks will do likewise four years
later.

Why? Because the audience size is plummeting.
OpenDebates.org reports that viewership has declined
by 26.2 million Americans since 1992.

What was special about 1992? A third candidate (Ross
Perot) was on stage.

And those declining ratings are easy to explain.

Most Americans don't vote. More and more Americans
are figuring out that there's little substantial
difference between the major party candidates.

And to make matters worse, what the candidates say in
these debates doesn't matter, because betraying their
base once in office is hailed as "growing" in the
press.

* Conservatives voted for "no new taxes" but
George Bush the Elder signed a tax increase
anyway.
* Union members supported Clinton. They got
NAFTA.
* Bush opposed "nation-building" in the 2000
Debates, but nation-building is the largest
initiative of his presidency.

When there are only two candidates on stage, you can
bet that the viewpoints will narrow. The real debate
over issues will disappear, and in its place the
candidate's confidence, likeability, quick wit, and
other inconsequential matters will be spun and
analyzed for days following - that is unless there's
a big screw-up ("there is no Soviet domination of
Eastern Europe and there never will be under a Ford
administration") or a real zinger ("you're no John
Kennedy").

What won't be addressed?

DownsizeDC.org points out that several positions held
by a large plurality, if not an outright majority of
Americans will be excluded from the debates,
including...

1) Reducing the size of the federal government -
Downsizing DC.
2) Ending the occupation of Iraq promptly.
3) Repealing the Patriot Act.
4) Ending federal persecution of Medical Marijuana
patients.
5) Ending corporate welfare.

Perhaps you think there's a difference between these
candidates. The truth is they agree on far more than
they disagree.

Bush and Kerry agree that we need more government
involvement in health care, education, the
environment, and a stronger War on Terror.

And their biggest area of agreement is that they
don't want you to hear from the other four
candidates who've leapt the considerable ballot
access hurdles placed in the way of minor party
candidates.

This election - this "debate" - is about
personalities and who gets all the jobs the winning
party can deliver.

It's easy to understand why the outcome matters to
career Democrats and Republicans. But why should it
matter to you? Why should you watch these
infomercials if the issues you care about are not
being discussed?

Since a majority of Americans believe the federal
government is way too big, why should they bother
tuning in at all?
 
Tell me about it

People are mad at some reporters that write their story about the conventions and debates before it happens.

Why not, I can pretty much guess what they will say and I don't watch them speak except for tiny clips in the news.

The reporters that follow Bush and Kerry have heard the "debate" in various forms for months at the different places they travel to.

Like the article says, they wont talk about the topics I think are important, and on the off chance they commit to something before the election, they will not bother to live with it after they are elected.
 
One thing you can bet for sure that illegal aliens will not be mentioned at all by either candidate.
 
I was about to stay home and watch the debates tonight, but then my sister in law called me up and said her and her brother had an extra ticket to the Phillies/Marlins game.............. so I went to the game instead.

Good game.

Phillies scored 6 runs in the 7th inning and came from behind to win eventually win the game.

They're still going to fire Larry Bowa.
 
Twelve voices were shouting in anger, and they were all alike. No question, now, what had happened to the faces of the pigs. The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
 
I am not sure if you are saying this or not so forgive me if I am misinterpreting your comments but…

If you can’t see the differences between Kerry and Bush then I can only shake my head in sadness at the obstacles faced by president and those that think as he does. It is disheartening.
 
For all moral and practical purposes no difference between Kerry and Bush exists
Perhaps you misunderstand me, you and those you think as you, are the obstacles the President faces, and it disheartens me.
 
The borrders [sic] were, though.
The borders Kerry was refering to (in the part of the debate that I saw) were Iraq's. I didn't catch the whole debate, so it is conceivable that the U.S. borders were also mentioned, though I highly doubt it.
Perhaps you misunderstand me, you and those you think as you, are the obstacles the President faces, and it disheartens me.
Marxists bum me out as well, as do all enemies of freedom.
 
Yes the debates are a waste of time. There is nothing either can say that would convince me to vote for either one of them.
 
I didn't catch the whole debate, so it is conceivable that the U.S. borders were also mentioned, though I highly doubt it.

Bush claimed to have increased security on the Southern border.

Perhaps you misunderstand me, you and those you think as you, are the obstacles the President faces, and it disheartens me.

Proud to be an obstacle to President Bush. :D

Remember:

Bush has violated the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eigth, Ninth, and Tenth amendments. (Patriot Act, Campaign Finance Reform, Safe Neighborhoods, War on Drugs, EPA powers).
 
Bush has violated the First, Second, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Eigth, Ninth, and Tenth amendments. (Patriot Act, Campaign Finance Reform, Safe Neighborhoods, War on Drugs, EPA powers).


Yep. The problem is, Kerry will do so and much WORSE, so you have two choices. (Well, not YOU, Micro, since you don't vote here).

You can vote for Bush, who will do damage to our country, or you can vote for Kerry, who will do much MORE damage. No, you don't get to sit it out. A non-vote for Bush is a vote for Kerry, like it or not.

And no, I don't like it. But that's reality.
 
Best format for a Presidential debate I've ever seen.

I know the Common Man prefers to "allow them to ask each other questions"....color that a Hannity and Colmes style "debate". Me, I preferred this more structured traditional debate.

Now if one wishes to argue that it's a "waste of time" because both candidates are so similar, you miss the mark. If that's what the debate proved to you, then it served its purpose admirably and you should be arguing that "voting is a waste of time", not the debates. But then, Micro, you have no personal dog in this race other than the aid either candidate might send your way....so I understand why you wouldn't argue that Voting is a waste of time.

If one wishes to point out that, from a survey and voter point of view, Kerry put himself back in the race, then the Debate served it's purpose.

If one wishes to argue that Bush was far better on substance, then the Debate served its purpose.

The article posted here shows an ignorance of traditional debate style and it's quite clear that the author never actually READ the referenced Lincoln/Douglas debates....talk about "infomercials"....those were the classic. Debates are not about spoon feeding you a clear cut decision on your vote. They're about getting you to think.
Many people would rather die than think; in fact, most do.
Bertrand Russell
Rich
 
Rich, it would all be wonderful and true, except for one thing:

The debates were supposedly invented to allow voters to better familiarize themselves with the different candidates. How in the seven hells is the voter supposed to famliarize himself with the different candidates if only two candidates are allowed to participate?

The so-called two-party system persists exactly because the two parties are rigging it to their advantage, and the results, as they say in Russia, are 'seen on the face'.
 
Micro, that's a valid complaint, but it doesn't mean this debate was useless. "Not what it should have been." is not the same as "Completely useless."


It DID highlight two stark and hugely important differences between the only two real candidates - one is a globalist who won't do anything without permission, and one will defend America whether France likes it or not.


THAT is important.


I'd like to have seen Bush push that point harder, but I'm glad for what he did say.
 
Debates are a waste of time?

This type of attitude, that the debates are a waste of time, voting is immaterial, is very pervasive among many Americans and disturbing.

At the core of our way of life and liberty is our freedom of choice, that many can't fathom or denied this basic premise that we enjoy as Americans.

To those that we are presently engaged in war with, our very survival as a nation is at stake. To dismiss our duty as Americans, and casually toss aside our voting rights, the privilege to be informed is = unforgivable

The thousands who have sacrificed their lives, liberties, past - present and future, for US so that we can exercise these God given rights that we enjoy. Let us hope that all their sacrifce was not in vain.

12-34hom.
 
Micro-
I don't disagree that the other three candidates should be included. However, that's our system, today, and it works pretty OK, ya know.

It's really easy to stand apart and point fingers at others based on news reports from still others. But hardly a substantive contribution.

I mean, really....just look at Israel:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression you live there, yes? It's my understanding that, in Israel, you really don't get to vote for individual Knesset seats, do you? It's my understanding that you vote for one of about 30 Parties, each putting forth up to 120 candidates. That means you have to be familiar with, let's see, 3600 politician's views! Wow, anyone knows that's impossible. What a scam.

Any party that fails to exceed 1.5% of the votes is excluded from getting one of the 120 seats...that's about what Nader is looking at. So what's up with that, huh? Forget about a debate, they can't even get a seat! Clearly, any party getting .83333333333333% should get at least one seat....do the math.

The Knesset, the Central Elections Committee may prevent a candidates' list from participating in elections if its objectives or actions, expressly or by implication, include one of the following:
i. Negation of the existence of the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish people;
ii. Negation of the democratic character of the State;
iii. Incitement of racism.
Jeez, don't you guys allow any dissention there. The parties in power get to decide which other parties can and can't run. I'll bet all the candidates look alike as a result. "What a waste of time."

Your President is actually elected by a secret ballot of the Knesset! You have no say in it and no knowledge of what went on behind the scenes. My God, the sky is falling!

Still, last I heard, Israel functions pretty well. So does the US. Suggest you concentrate some of that overabundance of political insight on fixing the nuance problems in your own country. We're doing just fine over here.
Rich
 
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