Debate: full sized 9mms

Q

Quantum Singularity

New member
Given the 10 round magazine limit, what is the point of a full sized 9mm? In Kalifornia, we can't even legally buy or import a hi-capacity magazine anymore. In those states that still allow pre 1994 banned magazines, the price is generally sky high. For the sake of this argument, lets assume that hi-caps are no longer available for sale.

What advantage does a 10 shot full size 9mm have over a 10 shot .40 or .45? My personal philosophy is to own full sized .45s for home defense. I use 9mm only in compact/subcompact concealable pistols. A ten shot 9mm full sized pistol seems like such a waste of size.

The only advantage I can see for a 10 shot full sized 9mm is that its cheaper to shoot and would make a better target gun than a full sized .40. But for a defensive handgun, what does a full sized 10 shot 9mm have to offer that a .40 or .45 can't?
 
a full sized 9mm will have less recoil than a compact or sub-compact 9mm and the 9mm in general has less recoil than a .40 or .45. i use a G19 for home defense with full-cap mags but i'd feel fine using just 10rd mags in it. i don't think the difference in stopping power is that much and i like being able to make quick follow up shots with it.
 
a full sized 9mm will have less recoil than a compact or sub-compact 9mm and the 9mm in general has less recoil than a .40 or .45. i use a G19 for home defense with full-cap mags but i'd feel fine using just 10rd mags in it. i don't think the difference in stopping power is that much and i like being able to make quick follow up shots with it.
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That is a good point. The 9 mm is much easier to shoot than a .40 of similar size. That said, I HONESTLY can't tell the difference in recoil between a full sized .45 ACP and 9mm. I've been shooting .45 for years, and I've come to the conclusion that (for me), the .45 is a pretty soft recoiling round. Granted, those new to guns probably wouldn't agree.
 
There is really no sense to purchase a full sized 9mm which is designed to hold more than 10 rounds. There are some very good subcompacts out there like the Glock 26 which are sized to only hold 10 rounds mags. Why carry around a bunch of empty space. The exception to this is if the gun is only going to be used at the range. This is just my personal opinion.
 
Why?

Why would you want a fullsize 9mm over a chopped and bobbed 9mm?

1) Less felt recoil
2) Less muzzle flip
3) More velocity from the longer barrel.
4) Less muzzle flash from the longer barrel.
5) Full 3 finger grip (this is very important)
6) No pinching skin during speed reloads
7) Better balance when carried IWB
8) Better stability when carried IWB
9) Easier to manipulate the slide if you're female.
10) Longer sight radius.

There... 10 very important reasons.
 
DVC, good reasons, but I think quantum meant the choice was between a full size 9 mm and a full size .45 or .40...Quantum?
 
DVC, good reasons, but I think quantum meant the choice was between a full size 9 mm and a full size .45 or .40...Quantum?
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Yes, your exactly right. I am getting at full size 9mm vs .40 vs .45. I see little to no difference in recoil between a full size .45 and a full size 9mm (other than the 9 being snappier). The .40 is a bit sharper than 9 and 45 IMO, but it too is managable for most people. So my point is what does the 10 shot full size 9 do that a 40 or 45 can't do?
 
I personally see little need for full-sized 9mms in the first place, to tell you the truth.

That said, though, I'll note that I have 3:

1. Radom Vis 35, the first centerfire handgun I ever purchased.

2. Beretta 92, which I got because it was just such a FANTASTIC deal. Who could say no to a Beretta 92 with 5 high cap magazines for $270?

3. HK P7M13, but that one was a gift from a friend.

My other 9mm is a Kahr K9. What a FANTASTIC gun this little critter is.
 
Mike, how do you like that Radom pistol? I'm always in the market for interesting and "off the beaten track" guns.
 
I own a P226 with three 15rd. mags in Kalifornia!

Full size 9mm capped at 10 rounds is lame, like a performance motorcyle engine rev-limited at 2500 rpm. I can barely live with my SIG P229 that is capped at 10 rounds of .40S&W instead of 12.

At Kali's current legal state, I would be wasting money to buy a Beretta 92, SIG P226, or Glock 17 (unless, I already had "full" capacity magazines on hand).

Remember folks, there is no such thing as a "HIGH" capacity magazine, just "FULL", God-given, engineer-designed capacity.
 
Its lame. For target shooting, the ten rounders conserve ammo and do so in a numerically efficient way (a box of 9 mm = 5 mags). I can empty a mag out of my fullsized CZ-75 more accurately and faster than any other fullsized gun in a higher caliber (Excluding the Desert Eagle in .357)

With that said, I won't buy another fullsized 9mm unless its single stack (ala Sig P210).

Someone needs to come out with the poor mans Sig P210, I'm thinking a slimmed down 1911 frame with a CZ inverted rails slide. Sounds good to me.

...Then it leads me to realize the CZ 97 is the most gun for your money right now in CA.
 
I love the full size 9mms but I have hi caps for all of mine. Even if I didn't I would just carry a spare mag. I think the 9mm performs best from a 4.5+ in barrel. I don't buy this "45acp is more accurate" stuff and certainly not 40cal. I have owned and shot too many pistols in those cals. I presently own (in the type we are speaking) CZ75B - Glock 17 - BHP. The G19 and Ruger P95 really wouldn't fall into that cat IMO. If you asked me which I liked best would depend on which day you asked me. I seldom carry however and when I do its a Guardian these days. I always have one of the above in the dash of my pickup however. The above post is not intended to start a cal war so in that regard to each his own.
 
StephenT: Since Mike hasn't replied yet let me jump in and make a few comments about the Radom. Don't know if you know its history, but was the official Polish army pistol adopted in 1935. It is basically a mix of 1911 and HI-Power with the addition of a hammer drop, but still single-action(meant to be carried in condition 2). It has an 8-shot mag. Pre WW2 Polish guns are beautifully finished, but guns made under NAZI control show a steady deterioration in quality as the war progressed. The Germans made between 300,000-400,000 during the war, but production was not restarted after the war.

The gun I have has a wartime finish. It's a very good pointer with a good trigger, but lousy sights typical of early 20th century guns. These are strictly collectors items in my opinion, to be shot infrequently due to their age and lack of parts.
 
cheap practice ammo ($6.50 for Winchester white box 115FMJ) and it makes sense to use the pistol you practice with most, i carry a full size 9mm but i do make use of full capacity mags
 
Ok then...

Quantum Singularity: Ok then, why a full size 9mm over a full size .40 or .45?

1) Less felt recoil than .40 or .45
2) Less muzzle flip than .40 or .45
3) Faster follow up shots than .40 or .45 (try tripple tapping with a .40 or .45)
4) 9mm is inexpensive, more practice time
5) 9mm is a NATO round, .40 and .45 aren't
6) Easier to manipulate the slide if you're female
7) Less risk of overpenetration than .40 or .45
8) 9mm is more feed reliable than .40 or .45 (tapered case)
9) .40 is prone to Kb! in a Glock, 9mm isn't
10) 9mm is adequate, stopping power is a myth.
 
I will agree that for a carry gun, a fullsize 9mm might not be your best choice.
However, for home defense, target, or just a plinker a fullsize 9mm isn't bad (even with 10 round mags).
If you're saying that it's just too big for the caliber, how do you feel about something like the Ruger Mark II or Browning Buck Mark? Both of these guns, of course, are chambered in .22 and their size is larger than any 9mm.
I realize you wouldn't carry these guns, hence my opening statement, but there is a valid reason for buying such a gun (even other than target shooting). I enjoy just kicking around with a .22- shooting cans and anything else I can find.
I have a fullsize 9mm (I admit to having a 16 round mag) but would happily shoot it even if I had just 10 rounds.
Safe Shooting
Shoot9
 

7) Less risk of overpenetration than .40 or .45
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I disagree with #7. The 9mm is a rather high penetrating round.

8) 9mm is more feed reliable than .40 or .45 (tapered case)
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I disagree here too (this is a BIG generalization). Depends on the gun. I have never had a malfunction in my Glock 21 or Ruger P97. However, my Glock 9mms have been jam-o-matics-- except for my G26 which is 100 percent reliable. Even my 9mm Sig 228 jams from time to time.
 
Quantum Singularity, since you can control the .45 so well it seems that thats the best round for you to use defensively. if there was a .45 glock that fit my hands better than my G30 i might like it as much as i do my G19 and G22. .45/10mm glocks don't fit my hands as well as the 9mm ones so i don't shoot them as well. i might like .45 more if there were more guns i liked in it. however i'm conforatable protecting myself with a 9mm. there are so many different calibers available because everyone has different tastes and preferances.
 
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