DC: Police State, aka "Neighborhood Safety Zones"

First news reports from the front...

Police get mixed response to checkpoints

Some in Trinidad neighborhood critical of anti-crime measure
David C. Lipscomb
Sunday, June 8, 2008

D.C. police set up their first vehicle checkpoint in the troubled Trinidad neighborhood Saturday night, but might have been outnumbered by two dozen American Civil Liberties Union volunteers monitoring police and speaking to residents who were turned away.

Those who live in the community had mixed reactions to the checkpoint - part of a heightened effort to stanch the virulent homicide rate in the 5th Police District. The controversial step came after eight people were killed last weekend in five incidents, mostly in that district.

For a time on Saturday night, police used the checkpoint to limit access down the main thoroughfare of Trinidad, which is in Northeast near the National Arboretum and Gallaudet University, under the new Neighborhood Safety Zone program. They stopped motorists and checked their identification. Those who did not have a "legitimate purpose" in the area were not allowed to proceed.

"If they hadn't put the notice up, they would have caught everybody red-handed," said Barbara Campos, 65, of the 1400 block of Montello Avenue. However, she said she doesn't think the checkpoints will lower crime.

"It's a great idea. "It's good for us because it makes the neighborhood safer," one resident said.

For a time on Saturday night, police used the checkpoint to limit access down the main thoroughfare of Trinidad, which is in Northeast near the National Arboretum and Gallaudet University, under the new Neighborhood Safety Zone program. They stopped motorists and checked their identification. Those who did not have a "legitimate purpose" in the area were not allowed to proceed.

"If they hadn't put the notice up, they would have caught everybody red-handed," said Barbara Campos, 65, of the 1400 block of Montello Avenue. However, she said she doesn't think the checkpoints will lower crime.

"It's a great idea. It's good for us because it makes the neighborhood safer. I want the people to be caught," said Mehret Tesfay, 32, of the 1200 block of Owen Place.

Other residents opposed the checkpoints.

Linda Leaks, 60, of Northwest, was stopped at Owen Place and Montello Avenue. She showed officers her identification, she said, but refused to tell them where she was going. Police did not allow her down Montello, so she had to circle around and park two blocks away. She later said she was headed to a community meeting.

"They violated my rights. That makes no sense," she said. "That doesn't stop the crime."

"Let's not turn Trinidad into Baghdad," said Johnny Barnes, executive director of the ACLU-National Capital Area.

"The courts have ruled many times that the right to be left alone is a very important right, maybe even the most important right a person can have," he said.

More than 20 lawyers, law students and others observed the checkpoints and planned to interview those who were turned away by police to determine if their rights were violated, Mr. Barnes said. The local National Association for the Advancement of Colored People's police task force joined the opposition.

The plan, created by Police Chief Cathy L. Lanier with the help of D.C. Interim Attorney General Peter J. Nickles, has also been strongly endorsed by Mayor Adrian M. Fenty, a Democrat, who calls it necessary to halt such an alarming surge in violence.

The checkpoints will be enforced at various locations at random hours for at least five days, and up to 10 days, police said. Pedestrians are not affected. Only cars in which officers see guns or drugs will be searched, police said.

D.C. Council member Harry Thomas, Ward 5 Democrat, supports the plan, but Friday called for Mr. Fenty to back his 10-point plan to create permanent solutions for issues such as poverty and lack of social services that plague the communities where violence has occurred.

Council member Phil Mendelson, at-large Democrat, blasted the plan hours after it was announced and sent a letter Thursday to Chief Lanier asking for documents related to the operation of the program and data on the effectiveness of other strategies, such as drug-free zones.

Of the 42 homicides in the city since April, seven of them have occurred in Trinidad. Reports show 24 assaults with a deadly weapon since that time.

In the 5th District as a whole, 14 people have been killed since April, and 22 have been slain year to date - one more than in all of last year.

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jun/08/police-get-mixed-response-to-checkpoints/#

Comment: Well, it looks like the ACLU will take up AG Nickles dare to sue him. Duh! Send a local law student through the checkpoint with pre-programmed responses, and they get to write their own best script for the court challenge!

Seems to be a lot of unanswered questions, however. Any idiot (including criminals) will become aware of the list of "legitimate" reasons that police will accept to allow passage through the checkpoints (i.e., "church meeting", "taking food to my sick auntie", etc.) Will police follow up on these statements, and pull a Martha Stewart on those who give false stories? "Suspect guilty of going to pool hall instead of church?" :eek:

Also this:
Only cars in which officers see guns or drugs will be searched, police said.
...makes little sense.

Even the dimwitted criminals can keep the contraband stashed from plain sight, and learn the magic words to get through these "checkpoints".

Waiting for news on the effectiveness of the program...I see no news stories of arrests at the checkpoints.
 
The perceived 'need' to do something as radical and controversial as this clearly shows that D.C.'s strict gun laws are 'working like a charm'.
 
It's really food for thought to me but clearly the people doing this have either amazingly thick skulls or significant ulterior motives. Isn't it strange that in places where people are free to defend themselves, district-wide military state policies do not become necessary? Around these parts, the criminals carve out their blocks or streets and the law abiding citizens largely stay away from them (and, usually, vice-versa). I suspect the criminal mind is aware of the reasonable probability of catching a perfectly legal round in the chest, should they take their antics into the upscale 'burbs. In DC, they're free to roam.
 
<sigh>

So much stupidity, so little time . . .

Councilman Harry Thomas (D-Ward 5) said:
. . . or these folks who come into the community and wreak havoc?"

Hate to break it to you, Harry, but they're already in the community
 
The thing that truely makes this nonsense, is that the police, and the folks in the probation/ parole departments know who the criminals are. You see its a relatively small number of violent habitual repeat offenders, and their neighborhood associates who cause all of the problems and commit all of the violence.

So why dont the police and the probation / parole officers concentrate on these ne'r do wells? Its a mystery to me, especially since the folks on parole/ probation have given up their rights and are subject to search and seizure at any time.

My conclusion is that the police really don't want to control crime, or they would take the fight to the criminals. They want to control the law abiding, and appear to be doing something, its much safer and easier that way.:barf:
 
Got to say, not sure how I fall on this one. IIRC, in NYC they did this and it was a success. Early 90's perhaps, they blocked off some Manhattan blocks for the same reason and it did cut crime. After a few weeks, maybe as much as a month the police left and amazingly crime stayed down. Again, I will have to do some research again this evening, but if anyone else knows off hand, this did "work" in NYC.

Again, the work in quotes there denotes that this is an extreme breach of someone's privacy but in the way it was applied it actually helped the community as a whole and brought their block, neighborhood, back to something better. I, looking from the outside in, find it grossly unconstitutional, but on the other hand, if I were a resident and crime was all around me 24/7 then I may welcome the police roadblocks and increased police presence for a sense of safety to return. Remember, the ones who are allowed to be there will be safer.

I think in a way, we try to project ourselves into the position of some innocent bystander trying to get into a neighborhood when in actuality the only ones trying to get in there knowing there is a heavy police presence are either residents, people wanting to challenge the police, or thugs trying to commit crime.

Great example I think of where some could fall on either side of the issue for good reasons. I am straddling the fence right now trying to decide where I fit in.
 
My feeling is that once you trade a bit of the liberty for some of that security, you'll soon be trading in some more.

What's the thinking behind this move? "Well, we don't want shady people walking these streets picking a fight or shooting up the locals. Let's control their movements."

With the counterargument being, "Well if you've got nothing to hide, then show some ID."

How soon before this line of thought comes into play?

"Hmm seems those checkpoints aren't working. Those shady people are getting into those neighborhoods still, deal drugs and shooting up the place. Now what do we know about all this crime? Well, they always happen at night...."

Curfews. The next step.

With the counterargument being, "hey, what are you doing standing at this street corner at 2 a.m.? You're not dealing drugs, are you? Don't you have a job in the morning? you should get some rest."
 
Wouldn't it be ironic, if

In the middle of the collapse of DC, the SCOTUS ruled in favor of Heller, knocking down the ban on citizen ownership of guns. Then, citizens re-arm and begin protecting themselves. As a result, the crime in DC plummets.

My question is, how would the gun control advocates explain this not-too-unlikely scenario?
 
This should worry all honest citizens. I know there are people who are ready to scream OMG POLICE STATE at any little thing, but this really does smack of just that. Whats next? I know, Just wall off the entire border of DC, ala Escape from New York style, and send in the extermination squads to get rid of the "bad elements". Then anyone going in or out of any of the main gates into DC could be stopped, searched, and questioned before being let in. :rolleyes:

Doesn't seem too far from reality anymore does it?

Just ARM YOUR LAW ABIDING CITIZENS you idiots! Restore their Constitutional Rights to defend themselves, and adopt some no duty to retreat laws, and the city will clean itself up....for free.....
 
This has been done before, and in greater degree...

In Europe. They called them ghettos, and only the residents were allowed/required to be there. Eventually those "undesirable elements" were removed to camps. Are we heading down that path?

Our right to travel is one of those basic rights generally covered under the "pursuit of happiness" and that pesky "liberty" one as well. Too bad for those who still believe the US Constitution is obeyed (when inconvienient) by law enforcement in major cities. This out to be a wake up call.

Remember what Franklin said about liberty and safety. That's what the poeple in DC have got, neither.
 
applesanity,

I see your point, but for some reason I see it differently.

Maybe I am naive, and if so, that's on me.

Here's a question, apparently, the police went around to the block that was affected and asked the residents their approval of using this as a way to combat crime. Whether it was an overall approval they received or a majority, or whatever way they balanced it, I think it is fair to say most of the residents were ok with it. With the residents approval the PD set up shop and started the checkpoints.

Now, do the residents, whose neighborhood it is, have the right to limit who they want in their area (block) the same way in which a gated community can limit their access from the public? In this case, does the police take the responsibility of the rent-a-cop who mans a guard shack and carries OC spray? Now, I have other issues with the tax dollars of the great District being used to essentially "guard" one city from violence while the rest remain the same, if not sub-standard because of the concentration of police on the one block.

If the residents are willing to give up their rights, and I would argue they are not giving up anything, but are essentially just being specific as to who comes and goes, what business is it of the rest of the public? They certainly don't live there or put up with the crime infestation. Does the fact that its a public street and public area make it different than if it were on private property or done by private security guards?
 
Here's a question, apparently, the police went around to the block that was affected and asked the residents their approval of using this as a way to combat crime. Whether it was an overall approval they received or a majority, or whatever way they balanced it, I think it is fair to say most of the residents were ok with it. With the residents approval the PD set up shop and started the checkpoints.

With enough fear, you can pass any legislation.

9 people get shot in 48 hours. Police go into the neighborhood and ask, "how's y'all feel 'bout checkpoints... um.. I mean... safety zones?"

"YES. OH GOD YES. IT'S ABOUT TIME."

Please, oh please won't you think of the children. The children!

Nancy Grace thinks about the children all the time.
 
I just talked with my lady friend about this, thinking she would be shocked by it.

Instead she looked at me and said, "good...whatever it takes to clean that (scum) out".

I pointed out it was police state tactics...she just shrugged. "It's like a gated community".
 
I pointed out it was police state tactics...she just shrugged. "It's like a gated community".

Again, from my other post, I tend to sort of agree with her. I still am not of the opinion that 'the gubermint is out to get me every chance they get'. I am not saying all of you are, but I tend to think mostly that they have the residents intentions of safety and security in mind. After all, this is a quick fix, its not a permanent police presence.

I am going to sit on this a while and wait for more info to come out, maybe I am jumping to conclusions to soon.
 
"...but I tend to think mostly that they have the residents intentions of safety and security in mind."

Sure they do, as well they should. No one questions their good intentions. But historically in this country we have disallowed such constitutional breaches as a hedge against the "someday" when a government official who does NOT have good intentions tries to do the same thing to further some evil plan.

Tim
 
Just like gun laws, I feel they need to work with existing laws. As previously stated, they have tons of probation and parolees to hound. Also they could be of a greater presence and arrest folks breaking the laws. Give the legit residents the right to arm themselves and watch the crime rate plummet!
Brent
 
There is a HUGE difference between this and a gated community. The two are not even remotely comparable. In a gated community everyone who purchases a home there knows at the time they decide to live there that access to the community will be monitored and they, the residents, hire a private security firm to do that monitoring. They also pay to maintain the roads since it is not a public road, it is completely private property and they are deciding who will come and go.

This is the police coming in and blocking off a neighborhood where all of the people who live there have not decided they want it blocked off, and even if they did it's the taxpayers, not the residents footing the bill. It's also a public road and sidewalks, not private property. I don't care if a majority want it blocked off. That's mob rule, or pure democracy, which is just about the worst form of government possible. Maybe tomorrow a majority of them will decide that the crime problem is caused by those residents with dark skin and if they just removed all of them the neighborhood would be safe. Maybe the majority would like all of those below a certain income level removed for the safety of the community. Maybe they will decide they should put all of the dark skinned men under 30 into special holding areas where they will be supervised by heavily armed police (they need to use that military gear for something). Don't ever think it cannot happen here, it can, and the way we are heading as a country it probably will in our lifetimes.

This whole approach won't solve the problem anyways. The crime will just move elsewhere. The drug dealers aren't going to suddenly go out of business. Having police blockades doesn't do anything to reduce the demand for the drugs and where there is a demand where $ can be made someone will fill it, no matter what the risk.

The government will promise to protect you from terrorists and criminals but who will protect you from the government?
 
Master Blaster do you truely believe this.
My conclusion is that the police really don't want to control crime, or they would take the fight to the criminals. They want to control the law abiding, and appear to be doing something, its much safer and easier that way.


I am a State Parole Agent in Philadelphia, I work with the cops every day. Every day they/I bust guys send them to jail and everyday they are let out, due to overcrowding, Lack of Prosecution (not brought down for thier trial)... If I had the time, I would go out to all of my Parolees houses on a regular basis, but I just dont have the time. I maybe get to see them at thier homes once a month. The cops do know who the worst offenders are (typically the drug dealers) and what the do is lock them up as often as possible. But one arrest take at least a couple of hours of paperwork. So maybe they could arrest three guys a day, and that is if no other issues popped up. (The guy crys that his arm was hurt in the arrest, guess what a couple of hours in the ER getting an X-Ray.) The thing is the cops doent do a better job becasue they are following the laws about probable cause and illegal searches.

On second thought why am I even trying to explain it to you Master Blaster, you don't have a clue why the streets are so bad because you dont work them. Nothing I say will change your mind about the cops being the heavy handed controlling stormtrooper that you believe them to be. So why should I even bother trying. :mad:

I dont agree with the tactics in DC. If agencies would work together and we had more prison space, and people would stand up and fight back against the punks, dealers, and nasty scum the police in cooperation with the public would stand a chance.
 
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