Damn again: Savannah,GA High School shooting
- Thread starter DC
- Start date
Ho hum. It's only news because it happened at a high school (probably a Government-run high school) and it involved a gun. It's a damn shame that people were killed, though it doesn't, however, make MY ownership of firearms any less valid, regardless of how many people believe otherwise.
Why don't we ever hear about Joe Blow successfully defending himself from thugs with a gun in the national news? At best, it gets reported locally, if at all. Of course, I already know the answer.
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, NRA
Why don't we ever hear about Joe Blow successfully defending himself from thugs with a gun in the national news? At best, it gets reported locally, if at all. Of course, I already know the answer.
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, NRA
I used to laugh at people who would say what I'm about to say...I mean the "paranoid folks" I worked with who seemed just a little "out there"...
This is just too much! We have lived in a society where kids and guns coexisted for as long as we have had a country. Is it mass insanity? Has some evil (other than the current administration) taken over? Or is it truely a planned, orchestrated and well executed series of events leading up to the next election?
Are the people in power so corrupt and self serving that they would sacrifice innocent lives to achieve their end goal? Is disarming America a goal worthy of this high a price. Does the media not see their role in perpetuating the bloodbath by giving these sick morons their 15 minutes of fame?
Public opinion will sway under the sheer weight of it all. God may have given us our rights but it will be people who take them away. I fear this nation will be fed to the wolves without so much as a whimper.
Mikey
This is just too much! We have lived in a society where kids and guns coexisted for as long as we have had a country. Is it mass insanity? Has some evil (other than the current administration) taken over? Or is it truely a planned, orchestrated and well executed series of events leading up to the next election?
Are the people in power so corrupt and self serving that they would sacrifice innocent lives to achieve their end goal? Is disarming America a goal worthy of this high a price. Does the media not see their role in perpetuating the bloodbath by giving these sick morons their 15 minutes of fame?
Public opinion will sway under the sheer weight of it all. God may have given us our rights but it will be people who take them away. I fear this nation will be fed to the wolves without so much as a whimper.
Mikey
Destructo6
New member
The shooter wasn't a high school student, the slain were not high school students, and it happened across or down the street from a school (all from most recent reports). How does this make it a school shooting? (not attacking you, DC).
Has anyone here ever seen the movie "Telefon", starring Charles Bronson, and Lee Remmick? The plot of the story was, there were many Soviet sleeper spies placed in the US. One day, a renegade Soviet, intent upon creating as much havoc as possible, activated the sleepers. He did this by calling up the sleepers, and recalling a passage of words to them. At that time they would carry out their respective act of "terrorism".
A lot of research has been done in the area of mind control, and triggered responses.
Wouldn't surprise me much if we're seeing the results of some of that...
Was it the US Army, with the CIA, who were performing the LSD experiments in the 60's?
Was it the US Army who performed nuclear experiments with live soldiers in the 40's, and 50's?
Was it the Delta Forces who were in Waco?
Best Regards,
Don
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The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited March 11, 2000).]
A lot of research has been done in the area of mind control, and triggered responses.
Wouldn't surprise me much if we're seeing the results of some of that...
Was it the US Army, with the CIA, who were performing the LSD experiments in the 60's?
Was it the US Army who performed nuclear experiments with live soldiers in the 40's, and 50's?
Was it the Delta Forces who were in Waco?
Best Regards,
Don
------------------
The most foolish mistake we could make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerers who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own fall.
Adolf Hitler
[This message has been edited by Donny (edited March 11, 2000).]
Donny-
There's no need for such a conspiritorial explaination. Public schools teach that morality is relative and that criminals are victims. TV & movies teach that guns must be used to kill whenever possible, that murder is common and reasonable and fun, and there are minimal consequences. Raise a generation of kids on those teachings, add excessive coverage of school shootings to plant the spark, and it's simply a matter of time and statistics before some kids start doing such things on a regular & predictable basis. No conspiracy needed.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
There's no need for such a conspiritorial explaination. Public schools teach that morality is relative and that criminals are victims. TV & movies teach that guns must be used to kill whenever possible, that murder is common and reasonable and fun, and there are minimal consequences. Raise a generation of kids on those teachings, add excessive coverage of school shootings to plant the spark, and it's simply a matter of time and statistics before some kids start doing such things on a regular & predictable basis. No conspiracy needed.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
Jeff Thomas
New member
Per the Clinton News Network: http://www.cnn.com/2000/US/03/11/savannah.shooting.02/index.html
"'It's a sad situation,' Daisy Richards, a grandmother of two Beach High School seniors, said while she stood outside the school after the shooting. 'These kids have just as much a right to celebrate their victory as anyone else. Why, why, why, don't they get these guns away?'
Apparently one of the kids was a student. They claim the shooter is 19.
Per the NRA / ILA fact sheets: http://www.nraila.org/research/19991103-IllegalMarketTrafficking-001.shtml
Existing, relevant federal laws:
* A person must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition, and 18 years of age to buy a rifle or shotgun or ammunition, from a retail firearm dealer. (GCA, 1968)
* Regardless of age it is illegal to possess a firearm on or within 1,000 feet of school property, with limited exceptions. (Gun-Free School Zones Act, 1996).
And, in Georgia - it is unlawful for any person to sell or furnish a handgun to a person under 21 years of age.
So, Daisy, you're right. Why don't we enforce the laws we have? And, what possesses a young man to have so little regard for human life? After all, 19-year-olds had ready access to guns before the last decade in our history. What has changed? And, how have we made things better by working to prohibit people from defending themselves?
But, people like Daisy will not care about any of the delicate nuances of history, philosophy, law and Constitution. They won't care about the 99.8% of guns that are never involved in a crime. Instead, they won't be satisfied until we prohibit guns.
This is certainly a war of ideology, and the major media in this country never misses a chance to attack. They make sure they distort this issue at every turn. What a shame, all around.
"'It's a sad situation,' Daisy Richards, a grandmother of two Beach High School seniors, said while she stood outside the school after the shooting. 'These kids have just as much a right to celebrate their victory as anyone else. Why, why, why, don't they get these guns away?'
Apparently one of the kids was a student. They claim the shooter is 19.
Per the NRA / ILA fact sheets: http://www.nraila.org/research/19991103-IllegalMarketTrafficking-001.shtml
Existing, relevant federal laws:
* A person must be 21 years of age to purchase a handgun or handgun ammunition, and 18 years of age to buy a rifle or shotgun or ammunition, from a retail firearm dealer. (GCA, 1968)
* Regardless of age it is illegal to possess a firearm on or within 1,000 feet of school property, with limited exceptions. (Gun-Free School Zones Act, 1996).
And, in Georgia - it is unlawful for any person to sell or furnish a handgun to a person under 21 years of age.
So, Daisy, you're right. Why don't we enforce the laws we have? And, what possesses a young man to have so little regard for human life? After all, 19-year-olds had ready access to guns before the last decade in our history. What has changed? And, how have we made things better by working to prohibit people from defending themselves?
But, people like Daisy will not care about any of the delicate nuances of history, philosophy, law and Constitution. They won't care about the 99.8% of guns that are never involved in a crime. Instead, they won't be satisfied until we prohibit guns.
This is certainly a war of ideology, and the major media in this country never misses a chance to attack. They make sure they distort this issue at every turn. What a shame, all around.
Golon67212
Inactive
Flick coming out in the summer(?) is called "Gone in 60 Seconds," with Nic Cage, Angelina Jolie, and Robert "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" Duvall. There's Hollyweird making car theft glamorous. One line from the movie was, "What's more exciting, sex or stealing cars."Oh my, where are the films such as "Ben Hur" and "The Ten Commandments," and "The Big Sleep" of yester-year.
THE POSITIVE LIVE SAVING USES OF FIREARMS BY THE LAW ABIDING.
We have heard above how a 19 year old choose to misuse a firearm and take life.
Now hear of a 19 year old who used a
handgun, not to kill, but rather, to prevent the occurance of
criminal violence to herself and her loved ones and harmed no one, whatsoever, while
doing so.
Guns are not evil or dangerious, they are neutral tools. There are ,however,evil and dangerious gun possessors.
Some of whom, such as Diane Finestien, are even elected officials.
Carla McCoy, a then 19 year old college student,was at her parent's Covington, Georgia, home when she was allerted to a strange man attempting to enter the house through a window.
Miss McCoy grabbed a .38 revolver, called 911, and then went downstairs to investigate.
Reaching the living room, she encountered the intruder,who, at the sight of the revolver, begged her not to fire and immediately exited the residence from the same window he had entered.
Miss McCoy never even had to point the revolver at the frightened invader.
"I'm extreemly thankfull that nothing happened here," said the student's father.
" The fact that she was armed had something to do with that."
Excerpt from The American Rifleman, 12/1995
original story: The News, Covington,Ga 08/24/1995
--------------------------------------------
If Mr.Clinton can do spin control, so shall I. (ernest2)
------------------
GUN CONTROL puts THE CONTROL
in the hands of THE CRIMINALS.
--------------------------------
You all have my permision to
use any of these"signatures"
here, if you like!
---------------------------
-They call 'em POLUTE-TICIANS because they POLUTE the MINDS
of OUR CHILDERN with their ANTI civil/firearms RIGHTS SOCIALIST
political agendas. We of the older generations know B.S.
when we hear it.
-----------------------------------------------
In 2000, we must become politically active in
support of gun rights or we WILL LOSE the right
& the freedom.
-------------------------
NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE!!!
----------------------
Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms
not to take live but to preserve life,....limb & family
.Gun Control Democrats would prefer that they are all disarmed
and helpless and die victims of felony violence,instead.
Protect your gun rights, go to: http://home.xnet.com/~gizmonic/TheMarch.html
and sign up as a helper or attendee or state organizer.
ernest2, Conn. CAN opp. "Do What You Can"! http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html
[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited March 12, 2000).]
We have heard above how a 19 year old choose to misuse a firearm and take life.
Now hear of a 19 year old who used a
handgun, not to kill, but rather, to prevent the occurance of
criminal violence to herself and her loved ones and harmed no one, whatsoever, while
doing so.
Guns are not evil or dangerious, they are neutral tools. There are ,however,evil and dangerious gun possessors.
Some of whom, such as Diane Finestien, are even elected officials.
Carla McCoy, a then 19 year old college student,was at her parent's Covington, Georgia, home when she was allerted to a strange man attempting to enter the house through a window.
Miss McCoy grabbed a .38 revolver, called 911, and then went downstairs to investigate.
Reaching the living room, she encountered the intruder,who, at the sight of the revolver, begged her not to fire and immediately exited the residence from the same window he had entered.
Miss McCoy never even had to point the revolver at the frightened invader.
"I'm extreemly thankfull that nothing happened here," said the student's father.
" The fact that she was armed had something to do with that."
Excerpt from The American Rifleman, 12/1995
original story: The News, Covington,Ga 08/24/1995
--------------------------------------------
If Mr.Clinton can do spin control, so shall I. (ernest2)
------------------
GUN CONTROL puts THE CONTROL
in the hands of THE CRIMINALS.
--------------------------------
You all have my permision to
use any of these"signatures"
here, if you like!
---------------------------
-They call 'em POLUTE-TICIANS because they POLUTE the MINDS
of OUR CHILDERN with their ANTI civil/firearms RIGHTS SOCIALIST
political agendas. We of the older generations know B.S.
when we hear it.
-----------------------------------------------
In 2000, we must become politically active in
support of gun rights or we WILL LOSE the right
& the freedom.
-------------------------
NO FATE BUT WHAT WE MAKE!!!
----------------------
Every year,over 2 million Americans use firearms
not to take live but to preserve life,....limb & family
.Gun Control Democrats would prefer that they are all disarmed
and helpless and die victims of felony violence,instead.
Protect your gun rights, go to: http://home.xnet.com/~gizmonic/TheMarch.html
and sign up as a helper or attendee or state organizer.
ernest2, Conn. CAN opp. "Do What You Can"! http://thematrix.acmecity.com/digital/237/cansite/can.html
[This message has been edited by ernest2 (edited March 12, 2000).]
glockguy45
New member
Donny:
"Was it the US Army, with the CIA, who were performing the LSD experiments in the 60's?
Was it the US Army who performed nuclear experiments with live soldiers in the 40's, and 50's?
Was it the Delta Forces who were in Waco?"
I am with you all the way on this. you did forget the OK city bombing...
"Was it the US Army, with the CIA, who were performing the LSD experiments in the 60's?
Was it the US Army who performed nuclear experiments with live soldiers in the 40's, and 50's?
Was it the Delta Forces who were in Waco?"
I am with you all the way on this. you did forget the OK city bombing...
What anti-gun legislation is currently pending in congress?
These shootings come as no surprise.
Nor does the focus of the media in reporting them.
It's becoming a "ho-hum" topic for me anymore.
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John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
These shootings come as no surprise.
Nor does the focus of the media in reporting them.
It's becoming a "ho-hum" topic for me anymore.
------------------
John/az
"The middle of the road between the extremes of good and evil, is evil. When freedom is at stake, your silence is not golden, it's yellow..." RKBA!
The simple fact is that more of OUR kids get killed by handguns either in school, out in the streets or playing with Grandpas new P239 while the folks are having coffee on the porch than any other "civilised" nation, by a factor of something like 40 or 50 times. Now whatever the reasons, that is a national disgrace and it verges on insanity. It's little wonder that the rest of the thinking world all regard us as gun crazy freaks with paranoid delusions who carry guns on our person when we shop for groceries. I'm a shooter, I love my sport/hobby and I want to keep loving it, but any shooter who seriously thinks that morgues full of little kids contributing to the one shot stop statistics is something that we can just shrug our shoulders at as if to say, "well, it happens, I blame the parents" is going to have a very big shock in a couple of years. The previously un-biased non-shooting public will not tolerate this for much longer, yes the media are whipping up hysteria, yes the kids concerned are screwed up individuals, yes they come from crack houses or have druggie parents who couldn't give a damn about their offspring. But they are shooting good kids not themselves, and that's the point.
I don't pretend to have the answers, but something has to be done for all our sakes, things just can't carry on like this forever.
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A Person Is Smart
But People Are Stupid
Mike H
I don't pretend to have the answers, but something has to be done for all our sakes, things just can't carry on like this forever.
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A Person Is Smart
But People Are Stupid
Mike H
Message to Congress: There will be a killing a week until you pass the gun laws we want.
We control public opinion. We control the criminals. We control the youth. Resistance is futile!! You will be assimilated!!
---- C.F.R/U.N.
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Glocks may come, and Glocks may go, but WALTHERS are FOREVER!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
We control public opinion. We control the criminals. We control the youth. Resistance is futile!! You will be assimilated!!
---- C.F.R/U.N.
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Glocks may come, and Glocks may go, but WALTHERS are FOREVER!!!
Off my meds (quit smoking), armed to the teeth, and loose on an unsuspecting society!!!
Bruce in West Oz
New member
Mike H:
Sadly, unfortunately, you hit the nail right on the head. The media do indeed play up incidents like this, and non-gunowners, as much distressed as we gunowners are by such incidents, will quickly stop being indifferent and look to the government to "do something".
Then you will be well and truly shot up the bum like a garden sparrow!
B
Sadly, unfortunately, you hit the nail right on the head. The media do indeed play up incidents like this, and non-gunowners, as much distressed as we gunowners are by such incidents, will quickly stop being indifferent and look to the government to "do something".
Then you will be well and truly shot up the bum like a garden sparrow!
B
David Scott
New member
Want to know the REAL cause of the problem? Advertising. That's right. Follow the steps:
1. Advertising adds cost to products without adding value. Does paying some jock $10 million to do a commercial make the sneakers last longer?
2. Advertising urges people to buy things they don't need. A Toyota Corolla will get you around town as well as a BMW 7-series, and for about $70,000 less. Hell, there are civilized countries where most people don't own cars, much less having 3 and 4 car families. Do we really need 100 cable channels at $60/month, $600 cappucino machines, or $5 t-shirts that sell for $35 with a "Tommy Hilfiger" logo imprinted in Taiwan?
3. Advertising convinces parents that they aren't good parents unless they buy the stuff for their kids. Ever try telling an 8 year old, "Mo more Pokemon"?
4. In order to buy the unnecessary, high priced stuff, both parents work. The stress of working two jobs leaves no time or emotional resources for the kids.
5. With both parents working, kids lack supervision and ethical instruction. Parents try to make up for it with more stuff.
6. Kids learn that life is all about having and getting stuff. Since their parents work themselves silly to buy kids stuff, the kids figure they're entitled to stuff without working for it.
7. Kids figure that since they are entitled to stuff, they're entitled to everything else, including respect they have not earned, love they have not won, and liberties that they cannot exercise responsibly.
8. Kids with no ethical guidance, spoiled rotten by stuff, finally run into a situation where they are not handed something they want. They don't get into college with their C- average. A girlfriend or boyfriend dumps them. Whatever. Like any spolied creature with no values, they react in the extreme. Some commit suicide. Some shoot up a school. Some indulge in substances that hose up their lives.
9. Those kids eventually have kids of their own. Since they never learned love, ethics or responsibility, they can't pass them on to the kids. Situation goes steadily down hill.
Bottom line: The ONLY thing that will reverse the deterioration of society is responsible, competent parenting. Fathers and mothers must make it their #1 priority to raise up children who know right from wrong and take responsibility for their actions. No laws can make this happen, so all attempts to fix things with laws are just band-aids on a sucking chest wound.
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Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
1. Advertising adds cost to products without adding value. Does paying some jock $10 million to do a commercial make the sneakers last longer?
2. Advertising urges people to buy things they don't need. A Toyota Corolla will get you around town as well as a BMW 7-series, and for about $70,000 less. Hell, there are civilized countries where most people don't own cars, much less having 3 and 4 car families. Do we really need 100 cable channels at $60/month, $600 cappucino machines, or $5 t-shirts that sell for $35 with a "Tommy Hilfiger" logo imprinted in Taiwan?
3. Advertising convinces parents that they aren't good parents unless they buy the stuff for their kids. Ever try telling an 8 year old, "Mo more Pokemon"?
4. In order to buy the unnecessary, high priced stuff, both parents work. The stress of working two jobs leaves no time or emotional resources for the kids.
5. With both parents working, kids lack supervision and ethical instruction. Parents try to make up for it with more stuff.
6. Kids learn that life is all about having and getting stuff. Since their parents work themselves silly to buy kids stuff, the kids figure they're entitled to stuff without working for it.
7. Kids figure that since they are entitled to stuff, they're entitled to everything else, including respect they have not earned, love they have not won, and liberties that they cannot exercise responsibly.
8. Kids with no ethical guidance, spoiled rotten by stuff, finally run into a situation where they are not handed something they want. They don't get into college with their C- average. A girlfriend or boyfriend dumps them. Whatever. Like any spolied creature with no values, they react in the extreme. Some commit suicide. Some shoot up a school. Some indulge in substances that hose up their lives.
9. Those kids eventually have kids of their own. Since they never learned love, ethics or responsibility, they can't pass them on to the kids. Situation goes steadily down hill.
Bottom line: The ONLY thing that will reverse the deterioration of society is responsible, competent parenting. Fathers and mothers must make it their #1 priority to raise up children who know right from wrong and take responsibility for their actions. No laws can make this happen, so all attempts to fix things with laws are just band-aids on a sucking chest wound.
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Dave
Deep in the Florida Swamps
Dave, must be smart juice in that Florida Swamp water...I've long held your view, but couldn't have expressed it so well and so concisely. I'm copyin' your post for reference!! slabsides
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
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If they take our guns, I intend to let my hair grow long and acquire the jawbone of an ass.
I know part of the problem.
With only 40% of American boys growing up in the same house as their fathers it's not hard to figure out why we are seeing this. Young boys look for a role model and since there isn't one in the house they pick one off TV. And look at the violence on TV it deludes young minds into thinking violence is normal and in the end the bad guys win.
Another part of the problem is today’s youth knows that the law won't punish them, so they act lawless. Robert Heinlin stated it very well in Starship troopers when he wrote it over 40 years ago.
Then we have the feminization of the males in this country from the beginning, along with sensitive training for soldiers (so they will feel the pain of the people they are told to kill in a war and wont pick one females and queers). Instead of teaching duty, honor, and country we are making our young men into a bunch of doll loving pansies who are to politically correct to scratch in public. We teach them that women are their equals in everything, instead of teaching them that there are some things men and women perform equally well at, things men are better at, and things that women are better at. The two sexes are not interchangeable no matter how hard the feminists and liberals try to make them.
Its enough to make me sick. All this socialist/feminist drivel is destroying the male identity of the young men of this country.
With only 40% of American boys growing up in the same house as their fathers it's not hard to figure out why we are seeing this. Young boys look for a role model and since there isn't one in the house they pick one off TV. And look at the violence on TV it deludes young minds into thinking violence is normal and in the end the bad guys win.
Another part of the problem is today’s youth knows that the law won't punish them, so they act lawless. Robert Heinlin stated it very well in Starship troopers when he wrote it over 40 years ago.
Then we have the feminization of the males in this country from the beginning, along with sensitive training for soldiers (so they will feel the pain of the people they are told to kill in a war and wont pick one females and queers). Instead of teaching duty, honor, and country we are making our young men into a bunch of doll loving pansies who are to politically correct to scratch in public. We teach them that women are their equals in everything, instead of teaching them that there are some things men and women perform equally well at, things men are better at, and things that women are better at. The two sexes are not interchangeable no matter how hard the feminists and liberals try to make them.
Its enough to make me sick. All this socialist/feminist drivel is destroying the male identity of the young men of this country.
David I could not agree with you more on the advertising/social situation thingie. Mike H. I also agree with you on it being a disgrace to our society that probably the wealthiest vountry on the planet cant seem to raise its kids properly. The thought of just doing something is however about as ridiculous as the concept of AlGore having invented the internet. The true thought must be we must do something that can help the situation. Gun control is absolutely not the issue. Just as the war on drugs is not the answer to drug addiction and just as prohibition was not the answer to alcohol addiction. Just as David stated the problem lies in the fact that not a sole is taking care of and raising our children. Parents are out busting their buts making ends meet and the consequence is that the kids get left out. The choice between paying the mortgage and playing catch is what life has come down to. I have a good job that pays well, my wife is a teacher and we still have to have a third job to be able to make ends meet. Heck the way I figure it I wont be able to begin contributing to my 401K plan for another year till I get some debt paid off. And I am to consider my self lucky. Our leadership has absolutely no interest insolving the problems we are faced with today, weather it is violence, racism or anyhting for that matter. The simple fact is if they actually did their jobs they would be unemployed soon. And no power hungry, corrupt, bootlicking ^%^&&^$^** is willing to do that. Can you imagine Komrade Klingon actually having to earn a living. How about Teddy Kennedy, what would he do? Drive in a destruction derby??? All the problems we face today as a society benefits government. Our dumbed down education system has tought our children to look to the government solutions and not to themselves which is exactly what these morons want. [rant mode somewhat off]
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If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.
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If stupidity hurt, liberals would be walking around in agony.