Spats McGee
Administrator
My condolences on the loss of your grandmother, but congratulations on an awesome find. That's a gorgeous gun.
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Dad just inherited this 1911 from the Korean War
- Thread starter DirtyHarold
- Start date
Redhookbklyn
Inactive
My condolences on the loss of your grandma.
Great looking 1911.
Great looking 1911.
Bentonville
New member
Priceless is right . The pistol , in original condition, is a collectors’ item. You can price them out on this quality auction company : https://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/56/3617/remingtonrand-1911a1-pistol-45-acp
This is just an example . Research the history of the 1911a1. These are historically very interesting. There are tons of personal stories about GIs who uses these .45s to save their lives against Japanese and German and North Korean/Chinese enemies as well as enemies in Vietnam Nam. I collected four of the five makes of the 1911a1. And had to sell them over the years. Twenty years ago I paid 850 for a decent Remington Rand and it had no provenance as yours does. Please don’t let someone scratch it up, switch parts or hurt the parkerization. Honestly, for a collectible like that, I suggest you not shoot it . You can get a shooter that has no historical value .
This is just an example . Research the history of the 1911a1. These are historically very interesting. There are tons of personal stories about GIs who uses these .45s to save their lives against Japanese and German and North Korean/Chinese enemies as well as enemies in Vietnam Nam. I collected four of the five makes of the 1911a1. And had to sell them over the years. Twenty years ago I paid 850 for a decent Remington Rand and it had no provenance as yours does. Please don’t let someone scratch it up, switch parts or hurt the parkerization. Honestly, for a collectible like that, I suggest you not shoot it . You can get a shooter that has no historical value .
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Aguila Blanca
Staff
What provenance? There has been no mention (that I saw) of any documentation. They have a pistol, a holster, and some magazines. Yes, they know the history of the pistol but, without documentation, the oral history adds nothing to the value of an antique. Doesn't matter if it's a gun, a painting, or a piece of sculpture.Bentonville said:Twenty years ago I paid 850 for a decent Remington Rand and it had no provenance as yours does
https://www2.archivists.org/glossary/terms/p/provenance
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provenance
The practice has a particular value in helping authenticate objects. Comparative techniques, expert opinions and the results of scientific tests may also be used to these ends, but establishing provenance is essentially a matter of documentation.
Bentonville
New member
From original post there was no mention of paper documentation. However, as the family knows who carried the pistol , that’s important in my mind . I have a piece of furniture that’s been in the family for 150 years, made by a relative . I value the piece. I have no written history but oral history is important to me, personally , even without a written document . I wish I had a 1911A1 carried by a relative in military service . Thanks to the OP for sharing.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
I quite agree that family lore attached to the pistol gives it incalculable sentimental value. However, you used the term "provenance," and as commonly applied to firearms (and 1911s), "provenance" generally refers to paper documentation, such as being accompanied by original shipping papers, or perhaps an official government bill of sale for when great grandfather purchased his issue M1911A1 from the Army at the end of the war, or maybe from the DCM (Department of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor of today's CMP).Bentonville said:From original post there was no mention of paper documentation. However, as the family knows who carried the pistol , that’s important in my mind . I have a piece of furniture that’s been in the family for 150 years, made by a relative . I value the piece. I have no written history but oral history is important to me, personally , even without a written document . I wish I had a 1911A1 carried by a relative in military service . Thanks to the OP for sharing.
In terms of establishing monetary value, family lore adds nothing. The mantra for buying old 1911s (and, I suppose, any old firearm) is, "Buy the gun, not the story."
Bentonville
New member
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/provenance?s=t
I understand what A B is saying . I did not use the word “Provenance” as it applies to selling. I have only used it as learned from my high school vocabulary tests. I think we probably understood each other from the first of this exchange. At any rate, OP, (without continuing to correct someone), treasure that Remington Rand. It’s definitely a keeper. It’s even more fun when you study the history of the various makes and dates of the 1911a1 as well as read stories of men who used the 1911a1 in war time.
I understand what A B is saying . I did not use the word “Provenance” as it applies to selling. I have only used it as learned from my high school vocabulary tests. I think we probably understood each other from the first of this exchange. At any rate, OP, (without continuing to correct someone), treasure that Remington Rand. It’s definitely a keeper. It’s even more fun when you study the history of the various makes and dates of the 1911a1 as well as read stories of men who used the 1911a1 in war time.
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I don't care what you call it, or if it adds any $ to the market value, what I cannot urge you strongly enough is to gather that "oral history", NOW, TODAY, while there are still people who can tell it. Get it written down. Along with any other items from his service. Uniforms, unit badges, medals, orders, pay stubs letters to and from home, any and ALL OF IT!!!!
Put it together so it won't be lost. So it won't be forgotten. These are the things that make history REAL. Something more than a 1hr blended down, homogenized "high points" on the Smithsonian Channel (interrupted with 3 four minute "infomercials")
As far as I'm concerned, every man and woman who answered their country's call and did their duty great or small is a HERO.
Put it together so it won't be lost. So it won't be forgotten. These are the things that make history REAL. Something more than a 1hr blended down, homogenized "high points" on the Smithsonian Channel (interrupted with 3 four minute "infomercials")
As far as I'm concerned, every man and woman who answered their country's call and did their duty great or small is a HERO.
Aguila Blanca
Staff
^^^ True enough, and good advice.
After I came home from Vietnam, I was very disenchanted with the reception we returning vets received. It was decades before I would even put on my resume that I am a veteran. I had multiple Class A uniforms, and I donated them all to a local theater group. I do, however, still have my medals, stuffed in a shoe box on a shelf at the back of a closet. I doubt my daughter cares, which is too bad.
After I came home from Vietnam, I was very disenchanted with the reception we returning vets received. It was decades before I would even put on my resume that I am a veteran. I had multiple Class A uniforms, and I donated them all to a local theater group. I do, however, still have my medals, stuffed in a shoe box on a shelf at the back of a closet. I doubt my daughter cares, which is too bad.
Bentonville
New member
I care and I appreciate your service more than this posting could ever convey. Thank you.
Ignition Override
New member
DirtyHarold: Congratulations!
Even though 1911's aren't my carry type due to the safety and size....
I would be happy to have a WW2 1911 for shooting at the club, especially a gun carried by a family member or anybody I knew. Adding the fact that "bringbacks" didn't see any part swaps makes it even more interesting as an original.
Such a piece of history.
And have you watched any WW2 or Korean War movies lately....for motivation and inspiration?
My only WW2 gun is a small, German Sauer 38H (.32 Auto) handgun, with replacements grips. This was 'liberated' from a German nurse.
The possible point? Consider the Stark contrast between this little Sauer carried by an unknown German, and the 1911 carried by your grandfather-no matter Which War.
Even though 1911's aren't my carry type due to the safety and size....
I would be happy to have a WW2 1911 for shooting at the club, especially a gun carried by a family member or anybody I knew. Adding the fact that "bringbacks" didn't see any part swaps makes it even more interesting as an original.
Such a piece of history.
And have you watched any WW2 or Korean War movies lately....for motivation and inspiration?
My only WW2 gun is a small, German Sauer 38H (.32 Auto) handgun, with replacements grips. This was 'liberated' from a German nurse.
The possible point? Consider the Stark contrast between this little Sauer carried by an unknown German, and the 1911 carried by your grandfather-no matter Which War.
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Adding the fact that "bringbacks" didn't see any part swaps ..
That's not a given.
parts swaps (individual gun to individual gun) could have happened any time after the gun entered service. Could have happened dozens of times, you'd never know. The only exception is those few parts that did get slight visible changes, such as the difference between WWI era and WWII grips.
With the adoption of the 1911A1 (about 1923-25) SOP became "all 1911s will be maintained with 1911A1 parts", and stayed that way until the A1 was retired from service in the mid 1980s.
when a GI came back with his 45 (bought or "kept") it would be in what ever condition it was issued to him. That could be anything from brand new 100% in the cardboard box to something that served at Belleau Wood, Bastogne, and Inchon.