da/sa dislikes
- Thread starter jp1994
- Start date
GunreviewWebmaster
New member
Thumbing it back
That is what I do with DA/SA triggers. It doesn't take too long. Obviously if a BG is on top of you you need to use DA. But if you hear someone break into your house you can simply pull the hammer back and keep your finger OFF THE TRIGGER. Wait for him/her to come to you (don't sweep). If you wait for the BG to come to you, you have him/her at the disadvantage.
That said, I prefer the ability to go cocked and locked. 1911s, CZs, HKs, and BHPs are more to my liking since they allow cocked and locked.
[Edited by GunreviewWebmaster on 04-28-2001 at 06:50 PM]
That is what I do with DA/SA triggers. It doesn't take too long. Obviously if a BG is on top of you you need to use DA. But if you hear someone break into your house you can simply pull the hammer back and keep your finger OFF THE TRIGGER. Wait for him/her to come to you (don't sweep). If you wait for the BG to come to you, you have him/her at the disadvantage.
That said, I prefer the ability to go cocked and locked. 1911s, CZs, HKs, and BHPs are more to my liking since they allow cocked and locked.
[Edited by GunreviewWebmaster on 04-28-2001 at 06:50 PM]
lonegunman
New member
totally agree with you, jp1994... it gotta be a glock or 1911 for me too.
My first 2 autos were a beretta 92 and a sig220.... both very nice guns. The DA pull is good on both. The SA pull is good on both. But mixing them together just doesnt work well, for me at least.
Some argue that learning the DA/SA transition just takes practice, and that may be true.
I could probably learn how to ride a bicycle blindfolded and backwards while juggling apples, but why would I want to?
My first 2 autos were a beretta 92 and a sig220.... both very nice guns. The DA pull is good on both. The SA pull is good on both. But mixing them together just doesnt work well, for me at least.
Some argue that learning the DA/SA transition just takes practice, and that may be true.
I could probably learn how to ride a bicycle blindfolded and backwards while juggling apples, but why would I want to?
As the proud owner of a Beretta 92 and other various da/sa firearms, I would like to say that for me it simply isn't an issue. Just got back from an afternoon of shooting steel and didn't miss my first shot even once. I personally believe it is a matter of preference and familiarity. For instance I hate the thought of having to thumb a saftey before firing, and the thought of having a cocked pistol on my hip gives me the heebie jeebies. Please no flames.
Terry
Terry
Shooting a Sig 220 I found it just takes practice to hit well on the first shot.I have no trouble transitioning from double to single action.Why thumb the hammer back and take a chance on slipping and haveing a AD.That isn't what the gun was designed for.Practice with it the way it is supposed to be fired.You will learn with practice.If you don't want to practice carry something else.
Herr Walther
New member
I got busted for doing that on a range qualification. I was trying to improve my groups with a pistol I didn't like in the first place. We were made to carry the S&W 4006. Never did fit my hand well and was heavy.
Anyway, it doesn't take long to do.
I've never had any problem with the DA/SA action of my other handguns. I really don't even notice the transition.
Anyway, it doesn't take long to do.
I've never had any problem with the DA/SA action of my other handguns. I really don't even notice the transition.
It may also have to do with how you learned, and what gun you started with. I learned on a Beretta 92, then moved on to the HK USPc, both are DA/SA, and have had no problems transitioning from one to the other. I am seriously wanting to get myself a 1911-style, but am admittedly a bit leery about carrying "cocked-and-locked".
Single Action Autos....
are what I learned first. Therefore, a cocked and locked autopistol is "normal". Administrators (who typically don't know much about firearms are very leerly of the practise. Oh, well.
I bought a USP 40 specifically to avoid the DA/SA transition. Not to mention the hazardous design of the system. That whole way of doing things is just treacherous.
The only times I've seen shooters deal sucessfully with the DA/SA transition is to make sure the first target is real close. Herr Walther's comment is interesting: Rangemasters seen to forget there are no rules in a gunfight. (See earlier comment regarding administrators.)
JP, your concept regarding cocking the gun upon drawing is sound. However, you must make sure you can do so effectively. Most autos (especially newer ones) are not ergonomically suited to thumb-cocking.
Don't let the comment about accidental discharges bother you; the various firing pin blocks won't let it happen unless you have the trigger depressed.
If your department doesn't like the idea, don't mention it to anyone.
are what I learned first. Therefore, a cocked and locked autopistol is "normal". Administrators (who typically don't know much about firearms are very leerly of the practise. Oh, well.
I bought a USP 40 specifically to avoid the DA/SA transition. Not to mention the hazardous design of the system. That whole way of doing things is just treacherous.
The only times I've seen shooters deal sucessfully with the DA/SA transition is to make sure the first target is real close. Herr Walther's comment is interesting: Rangemasters seen to forget there are no rules in a gunfight. (See earlier comment regarding administrators.)
JP, your concept regarding cocking the gun upon drawing is sound. However, you must make sure you can do so effectively. Most autos (especially newer ones) are not ergonomically suited to thumb-cocking.
Don't let the comment about accidental discharges bother you; the various firing pin blocks won't let it happen unless you have the trigger depressed.
If your department doesn't like the idea, don't mention it to anyone.
You have to go with what suits you. As has been stated before, you can teach yourself to be very, very good with a DA/SA if that is what fills the bill for you. Same is true for a 1911 or other cocked-and-locked SA's. I happen to really like the Glock safe action, because I have worked with every type of action out there and found that it "feels" the best to me.
And I would like to point out that the 1911 model got its name from the year that it was issued, so carrying cocked-and-locked is most definitely a tried-and-true method. It may not work for you, and you may not like it, but it is most certainly a safe and effective mode for those who desire it.
But, in my opinion, there simply is no substitute for getting out and trying a number of different types of firearms to find out what works for you. You may hit on one right away that you are comfortable with, but you may also be overlooking another that might be even better. Try them all, including revolvers. It will be readily apparent to you which is best for you.
And I would like to point out that the 1911 model got its name from the year that it was issued, so carrying cocked-and-locked is most definitely a tried-and-true method. It may not work for you, and you may not like it, but it is most certainly a safe and effective mode for those who desire it.
But, in my opinion, there simply is no substitute for getting out and trying a number of different types of firearms to find out what works for you. You may hit on one right away that you are comfortable with, but you may also be overlooking another that might be even better. Try them all, including revolvers. It will be readily apparent to you which is best for you.
lonegunman
New member
It is my opinion only, but I think most people with an aversion to "cocked and locked" carry just think it looks unsafe because they see a cocked hammer.
If the 1911 had a concealed hammer, I doubt there would be as much concern.
The trigger pull weight of 1911s and Glocks are rather close, about 5 lbs or so... and remember there are 2 safeties between you and the trigger on a 1911.
If the 1911 had a concealed hammer, I doubt there would be as much concern.
The trigger pull weight of 1911s and Glocks are rather close, about 5 lbs or so... and remember there are 2 safeties between you and the trigger on a 1911.
WoundChannel
New member
DA/SA? That is the reason I switched from Sigs to Glocks.
Like I said in a different post. DA/SA is like driving a car with stick shift - you have more control, but it requires more effort and practice.
A light DAO is like an automatic transmititon. I like it because I can spend more time concentrating on pure shooting skills vs. mastering the pecularities of a particular gun/trigger.
I don't think that either DA/SA or light DAO will go away. There is room for both. Its a personal preference. I do think that newer shooters will gravitate toward light DAO as it is easier to master in the same way that a car with automatic transmition is easier to drive. I think that most law enforcement will gravitate toward light DAO as it reduces their training costs/time to train.
Light DAO triggers are just coming into their own. I look forward to more new designs and existing handgun manufacturers to offer light DAO as an option. For instance, it would be nice if SIG offered their handguns with light DAO. I'm sure there will be some gun manufacturers who take a position like Henry Ford did when he said that consumers could have a model T in any color they want - as long as it was black. Well, thats when they started losing market share.
Its nice for people to have a choice.
A light DAO is like an automatic transmititon. I like it because I can spend more time concentrating on pure shooting skills vs. mastering the pecularities of a particular gun/trigger.
I don't think that either DA/SA or light DAO will go away. There is room for both. Its a personal preference. I do think that newer shooters will gravitate toward light DAO as it is easier to master in the same way that a car with automatic transmition is easier to drive. I think that most law enforcement will gravitate toward light DAO as it reduces their training costs/time to train.
Light DAO triggers are just coming into their own. I look forward to more new designs and existing handgun manufacturers to offer light DAO as an option. For instance, it would be nice if SIG offered their handguns with light DAO. I'm sure there will be some gun manufacturers who take a position like Henry Ford did when he said that consumers could have a model T in any color they want - as long as it was black. Well, thats when they started losing market share.
Its nice for people to have a choice.
A lot of people who have trouble with DA simply haven't been taught to do it right. I see a lot of them "staging" the trigger, or slapping the trigger, or not supporting their shooting hand correctly (much more important in DA than SA from my experience), or whatnot. Once they correct their form, they shoot well on a good DA trigger. It's really not hard at all. Don't understand the big fuss about it around here myself -- and I DO own a 1911 (and SAO .22 LR) in addition to three DA/SAs, so I do have a feel for the merits and faults of both systems.
Also, don't forget the fact that in a self defense shooting, prosecuters often like to play up the fact that the SAOs are "hair trigger combat weapons" and that therefore you were just looking to shoot somebody. Nonsense, sure, but be aware that this sort of thing does happen (unless I am a victim of urgan legend, but Ayoob has made similar comments).
I can empathize with those who simply can't stand DA/SA actions, though. I'm the same with Glocks. People can preach to me all day about the wonder that is the Glock safe action, and I will still pout childishly and refuse to like it. I could probably even learn to shoot it well if I wanted. I just don't want to.
Also, don't forget the fact that in a self defense shooting, prosecuters often like to play up the fact that the SAOs are "hair trigger combat weapons" and that therefore you were just looking to shoot somebody. Nonsense, sure, but be aware that this sort of thing does happen (unless I am a victim of urgan legend, but Ayoob has made similar comments).
I can empathize with those who simply can't stand DA/SA actions, though. I'm the same with Glocks. People can preach to me all day about the wonder that is the Glock safe action, and I will still pout childishly and refuse to like it. I could probably even learn to shoot it well if I wanted. I just don't want to.
While some may regard the Glock's trigger as "funny looking", the Glock actually uses a very nice combination of single/double action which AFAICT is unique among handguns. This combination has two great features, one of which is AFAICT unique among handguns.
First of all, the Glock isn't really a DAO; it's what I'd call an IAO. On a DAO pistol, all of the cocking energy comes from the trigger; on the Glock, Sigma, Kel-Tec P32, etc. some of the energy comes from cycling the slide. While the hammer/striker is essentially uncocked when the trigger is not depressed, having the slide provide a little energy to the hammer/striker allows for a nicer trigger pull than would be had on a DAO pistol. This is a nice feature, but it's not what sets the Glock apart.
The first shot of a Glock, as noted above, is essentially double-action. Unlike double-action firearms, however, which decock after firing, the Glock recocks against the trigger. While it is necessary to release the trigger partially before firing again, the Glock will remain substantially cocked as long as the trigger is held. When the trigger is fully released, the gun decocks (some cocking energy remains, as noted above, but not enough to fire a round). Thus, as long as the user keeps the trigger partially pressed the gun will work like a DA/SA. When the user fully releases the trigger, however, the gun will automatically decock (unlike DA/SA pistols which will remain cocked). In many ways, then, the Glock provides the best of all possible worlds.
First of all, the Glock isn't really a DAO; it's what I'd call an IAO. On a DAO pistol, all of the cocking energy comes from the trigger; on the Glock, Sigma, Kel-Tec P32, etc. some of the energy comes from cycling the slide. While the hammer/striker is essentially uncocked when the trigger is not depressed, having the slide provide a little energy to the hammer/striker allows for a nicer trigger pull than would be had on a DAO pistol. This is a nice feature, but it's not what sets the Glock apart.
The first shot of a Glock, as noted above, is essentially double-action. Unlike double-action firearms, however, which decock after firing, the Glock recocks against the trigger. While it is necessary to release the trigger partially before firing again, the Glock will remain substantially cocked as long as the trigger is held. When the trigger is fully released, the gun decocks (some cocking energy remains, as noted above, but not enough to fire a round). Thus, as long as the user keeps the trigger partially pressed the gun will work like a DA/SA. When the user fully releases the trigger, however, the gun will automatically decock (unlike DA/SA pistols which will remain cocked). In many ways, then, the Glock provides the best of all possible worlds.
I my self own a glock and have gotten pretty darn good with the safe action trigger. Then I handled a Para LDA in a shop and instantly fell in love with the DAO that felt like greased ice. However on trying one out at the range I found that I couldn't hit jack with it. I was so used to knowing exactly where my Glock would break and the round would go off. I am sure glad that I tried it befor I bought it. Saved me a lot of money. And as far as DA/SA I can't seem to get used to it but then again I really like my glock so I think that for me the decision is made.
