D.C. Circuit Upholds Second Amendment

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So excluding Hitler from gun confiscation is based upon one -- count 'em -- ONE quote that was not only made up but has been widely discredited?

This site http://www.ccrkba.org/pub/rkba/general/BogusAntiGunQuotes.htm not only has false quotes from Hitler but also Sarah Brady, and Janet Reno whom, I am sure, are not for firearms confiscation either.

Hitler used the existing firearms laws, and the registration they endowed, to confiscate firearms from those deemed unfit to have them. This included those who criticized the government, Jews, Communists, etc. Their firearms were taken from them by using the registration lists that these law abiding persons had helped create through their adherance to the law.

The Jews were subject to imprisonment and execution for having so much as an expended shell casing let alone a working firearm.

Is someone here next going to deny the Night of the Long Knives or Kristalnacht?
 
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Wild, maybe I'm just dense but I don't follow your logic. Sorry.
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The point to me is that no matter how many paragraphs of eloquent, logical discourse you have, but you end it with Mao and Hitler, that's what your audience takes away.

He's got a great argument, leave the low blows and Hitler analogies for the Internets
 
Hello everyone! I've been a longtime lurker ever since I started my search for the perfect .243 rifle for varmints/whitetail/range. Haven't settled on one yet, though. Anyway, I've finally found something that I really want to chime in on. I'm currently living in the D.C. area, so I do get a lot of the local news and sentiment from the ruling.

I've read lots arguments for RTKBA on this board, they're almost always logical and sound. But citing statistics, historical references, and legalese bewilders most people. Argue with anyone in support of gun control - you'll notice that usually their beliefs are emotionally based. A gun is an instrument of death, the gun industry is peddling assault weapons and high-powered sniper rifles, etc. Lots of fear and little rationality.

Hence, the majority of my beef with the NRA - they do lots of good and all, but they seriously need to shake off that public image of being a bunch of gun nuts. I was just visiting their website and on the splash page, there's a (cliche "right wing") radio host discussing semantics, alarmist headlines about how the feds are gonna take away our boom-sticks, and yet another picture of Wayne looking just as paranoid and crazed as ever.

I once got into a heated discussion with a pro gun-control friend. I used every logical argument I knew, and definitely all the ones that have already been stated on this thread. I got him to agree or concede to almost everything I was saying. But when I finished, he replied, "but guns kill people!" I hope my points are making sense.

So I agree with WildAlaska. Go mainstream and take fear element away with some common-sense education and exposure.

A posting about a family camping trip for some tasty fresh venison will do more good than quoting what James Madison wrote in a 200+ year old pamphlet. And definitely more good than talking about strangled rape victims.
 
Nice first post.

I've read lots arguments for RTKBA on this board, they're almost always logical and sound. But citing statistics, historical references, and legalese bewilders most people. Argue with anyone in support of gun control - you'll notice that usually their beliefs are emotionally based. A gun is an instrument of death, the gun industry is peddling assault weapons and high-powered sniper rifles, etc. Lots of fear and little rationality.
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The problem is that statistics, historical references, and legalese are the unemotional arguments that need to be made. Just don't start with them.

The only way to get someone over the fear of guns is to put one in their hand and show them that it is just a tool. Like a bandsaw, a power drill, a blowtorch, a gun can be dangerous, but having and owning and wielding one doesn't make someone into a criminal.

Once you have gotten them over that hurdle, then you can talk rationally about it.. but before they have gotten over the immediate fear, then you are correct, they will not be able to hear and listen to any rational argument you may make.
 
Applesanity,
Well said, but as you pointed out the entire anti-gun argument is based upon emotion rather than reason. If we can't use emotion to break down the barrier and it's impervious to reason...where do we begin?
I'd like to convince others wholesale instead of retail, and it seems there should be a better way then the 'take 'em shooting one at a time' approach. I mean yeah, it works, but it's so darn inefficient :(
 
A posting about a family camping trip for some tasty fresh venison will do more good than quoting what James Madison wrote in a 200+ year old pamphlet.
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So it was you that killed Bambi's mom!!! You bastard!:p

Otherwise I pretty much agree with your points...mother killer.:D
 
The Jews were subject to imprisonment and execution for having so much as an expended shell casing let alone a working firearm.
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Got an example of this ACTUALLY happening (verifiable and not just polemical)?

Their firearms were taken from them by using the registration lists that these law abiding persons had helped create through their adherance to the law.
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Got another example?


WildwaitingforthisoneAlaska
 
Of which part do you need proof, Wild . Are you a "Holocaust Denier"? All we have is history(hyperbole?) and statistics that it happened.

badbob
 
Gimme a break, the rhetoric is not only getting silly, but historically rediculous

The Holocaust and gun control are not related. The Cultural Revolution and Gun Control are not related. The Great purge and gun control are not related.

WildenoughscreechingalreadyAlaska
 
Got another example?
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Just look up the information on "punch cards" and the nazi holocaust. You will find a great deal of information on how the nazis used highly sophisticated registration lists to single out their victims.
 
And? Ya have an example of gun registration being used to tyranize someone? Or some Jewish guy getting Final Solutioned over a cartridge case inst4ead of his religion.

Ya know, we are WINNING...with the increase in stae carry laws and the DC decision...why dont we leave the screeching, silly statistics and rhetoric to Rosie and her crew

Wildofflineionabitfor24hoursAlaska
 
Reality check

Gimme a break, the rhetoric is not only getting silly, but historically rediculous

The Holocaust and gun control are not related. The Cultural Revolution and Gun Control are not related. The Great purge and gun control are not related.
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First, the word you are attempting to use is rIdiculous. Spell check was created for such as you; take advantage of it. Or is this "revisionist spelling" to complement your revisionist history?

Second, your assertion is ridiculously narrow in its (lack of) analysis.

YES, Jews - and bloody near everybody else - were deprived of arms WELL before the Nazis took power; the same is true for the Chinese. In both Europe and China, guns were the property of the landed gentry and the state.

HOWEVER, the larger issue of gun control is precisely that balance of power. The saying, "An armed man is a citizen; an unarmed one is a slave" reflects that.

The Holocaust, the Great Purge and the Cultural Revolution are manifest consequences of a disarmed populace.

Note that even a few armed citizens offering resistance can have a significant effect. The Warsaw Ghetto is an example precisely on point; the 99 Days of Peking, while involving Western legations and not Chinese citizens, is also illustrative.
 
First, the word you are attempting to use is rIdiculous. Spell check was created for such as you; take advantage of it. Or is this "revisionist spelling" to complement your revisionist history?
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I know how to spell, I just cant type. I refuse to use spell check becasue it makes me feel stupid :)

You feel better now that ya got yer thinly vield insult in?

The Holocaust, the Great Purge and the Cultural Revolution are manifest consequences of a disarmed populace.
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Post hoc ergo propter hoc my brother. No cause and effect there.

Note that even a few armed citizens offering resistance can have a significant effect. The Warsaw Ghetto is an example precisely on point; the 99 Days of Peking, while involving Western legations and not Chinese citizens, is also illustrative.
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The 99 days of Peking Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhahahahahah...I suppose you beleive the pop history you have read about that.?

If you think the Warsaw Ghetto was a signficant effect...o well...

WildagainwearewinningsowhyspoilitAlaska
 
Give Wild a break. I was just pulling his chain to illustrate that history and statistics are relevant, even though they can and will be manipulated. I think WA is saying take the high road and don't stoop to "their" level. Valid point, and commendable. I, OTOH, don't believe that the average person is that discerning or that noble. Sorry if I ruffled anyones feathers.

badbob
 
OH GOD HILLARY CLINTON AND DIANE FEINSTEIN ARE AFTER MY PHALLIC BOOMSTICKS. BETTER BARRICADE MYSELF AND MY GUNRACKS AT MY COMPOUND!

Arm Yourselves! The Liberals Are Out To Get Us!

Prepare For A Glorious Struggle! Wage War Against Those Evil Ninja Vampires From The Third Reich!

Brothers! We Must Take Up Arms And Fight For Our God Given Rights! RESIST TYRANNY! RESIST OPPRESSION!

Remember Ruby Ridge! Long Live Randy Weaver! Remember The Battle Of Athens! ALL HAIL JOHN LOTT! Amen, Brothers! Fight! Freedom! Now!


(I swear, Wayne LaPierre talks like this half the time.)
 
I think WA is saying take the high road and don't stoop to "their" level.
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Ah, yes, the ol' "lead by example" lament again. The fact is that leading by example doesn't work. Never has. Never will.
 
All:

While this discussion has gone on for a number of pages containing something like 160 or thereabouts posts, some my own, this is NOT the only firearms related cat to be skinned.

It was well and truly great to actually see a federal appeals court side with us, as the DC Court of Appeals did, but let's not forget other battles to be fought. We absolutely must keep the pressure up on our elected things. No rest for the wicked. After all, how was it that the DC ordinances came to be in the first place. The Congress, as it was then constituted, allowed them to become law.

At the risk of repeating myself, respecting for instance, the egregious antics of the BATFE (ATF), has The Congress taken any steps at all to really check the antics of this mob? Not that I've noticed, but then perhaps I've missed something interesting.
 
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