CZ P07 halfcock question

i am also curious, as i have never heard that before, does it cause damage to have safety on during half-cock? havent seen an answer to his question yet
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It was answered before. Here's a link to the manual...

http://cz-usa.com/hammer/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/cz75P-07DUTY_en.pdf

But I'll answer it again.

With the hammer on half cock the safety can be placed on. At this point the gun cannot be fired without first dis-engaging the safety. However the gun can be damaged if you have the hammer at half cock and the safety on if you pull the trigger or try to cock the hammer. The manual explains this.

Now why is this? The half cock notch is a safety feature. It's purpose is to aid in manually de-cocking the gun. Should you fingers slip while lowering the hammer the notch will catch it and prevent the gun from unintentionally firing. That's what it's for. With the CZ75B you can carry the gun with the hammer on the half cock and this makes the long da pull shorter and lighter. But even there it's not meant to be used with the safety on. The reason is because compared to the full cock notch it's relatively light weight.

The other reason that no one recommends putting the gun on half cock and then engaging the safety is because it increases the likelihood of damaging the gun. It can be damaged by racking the slide, cocking the gun or pulling the trigger through against the safety. It also doesn't get you anything by doing it. It's a liability.

The CZ P07 like the CZ 75 series is a gun that's designed as a da/sa gun with the option for condition one carry. It's not lawyer speak that cocked and locked is a called a mode used for making the gun safe during interruptions in firing. That's what it was originally called for with the 1911. You can carry it C&L all day of course and it's safe and easy.

It's also safe and easy as a traditional da/sa gun.

But when you bypass a safety feature or use it in a way it's not intended for it invites trouble. Like dropping the car into a lower gear and applying the emergency brake rather than just applying the brakes. Why do it? It doesn't make the gun safer.

There are da/sa guns with safeties like the Berretta 92, Walther PPK, S&W third gen guns and others. The safeties block the trigger from being pulled and if the hammer is cocked, de-cocks it.

tipoc
 
Tipoc: how many times must I comment that I merely wanted to know if the act of putting the safety on while on "halfcock" is damaging? I'm not talking about racking the slide, pulling the trigger, or cocking the hammer.

You're also disagreeing with the manual as well with saying cocked and locked can be carried all day when the manual says its for "short, interrupted breaks in between firing." You agreed with the manual, saying it wasn't lawyerspeak but yet the same sentence you advise to carry it cocked and locked all day. So what is it? So in your situation it's okay to go against the manual, but if I'm merely questioning it, I'm totally wrong and have to follow the manual word for word.
 
You're also disagreeing with the manual as well with saying cocked and locked can be carried all day when the manual says its for "short, interrupted breaks in between firing." You agreed with the manual, saying it wasn't lawyerspeak but yet the same sentence you advise to carry it cocked and locked all day. So what is it? So in your situation it's okay to go against the manual, but if I'm merely questioning it, I'm totally wrong and have to follow the manual word for word.
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Manuals often say things that don't seem to make sense, but some familiarity with the weapon in question often helps the gun owner to make decisions about proper usage.

From the start, the CZ line was designed to accommodate cocked and locked carry, from the first 75 model, onward. That is still the case with the P-07. The manual directly and specifically warns against using the safety when the hammer rests on the half-cock notch; it says it can be done, but should be avoided. I suspect that language is in the manual because CZ knows that many of us will, from time to time, forget to release/drop the safety when we're shooting. If the shooter started from cocked and locked in a match it makes the shooter feel stupid, but it doesn't really cause problems. In the case of P-07 starting from half-cocked and locked, it may damage the weapon if you do it often (or hard) enough. There is no similar disclaimer about using the safety while the hammer is cocked, or stated concern about damaging the gun.

The original poster said words to the effect that he's not stupid enough to do those the things that could cause damage. While I don't think he's stupid, I do think he's every bit as likely as the rest of us to do something without meaning to.

It's not about STUPID. It's about absent-mindedness. If he is ALWAYS so fully alert as to NEVER do make that sort of mindless mistake, he has my respect -- offset by a tiny bit of skepticism. But if he IS (or YOU are) really always that alert, neither of you NEEDS to use the safety in the first place, as neither of you would ever pull the trigger when you don't mean to. The firing pin block will keep the gun from accidentally firing any other time/way.

The half-cock notch wasn't present in the earliest CZ-75 models, but was a safety feature added later; it was never intended as a hammer starting position for a gun with safety installed. The half-cock notch was designed to catch an inadvertently falling hammer. As another responder noted, an inadvertent drop while decocking, is arguably more likely to happen than just about any other gun handling error -- except thinking the gun isn't loaded. CZ didn't warn against using the safety when the gun was on the half-cock notch in their earlier models, because it wasn't possible with the original CZ-75 lock work.

With the redesigned internals -- the Omega system -- it's now apparently possible to engage the safety when the hammer is half-cocked -- but not recommended. This is seemingly due to changes in the new design which allows the action to be user-changed from safety to decocker and back. You gain something and lose something else. (That is a truly unique design characteristic; I don't know of any other gun that can do that.)

The point that you and the OP continue to IGNORE is the simple fact that using the safety in either the half-cock or hammer down positions does NOTHING to increase the gun's safety -- unless you mistakenly pull the trigger when you shouldn't -- and you both apparently feel you'd never do that... Not having a safety with decocker models hasn't led to a lot of negligent discharges.

.
 
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Fullclip610,

I think Walt said all that needed to be said.

I meant no personal offense.

These look to be good guns. If I had one I'd get both the safety and decocker mechanism and work with both for awhile. Likely I'd settle for the safety as I'm used to that. Of course as there is no reason to put the hammer on half cock and then engage the safety, I wouldn't do it. :)

tipoc
 
Lol, it's cool guys. It's sometimes hard to relay a point via text. It just seems like the safety is absolutely worthless for ME bc i don't really like cocked and locked. When I first got the gun I thought it was broken bc unlike my beretta 92, it doesn't let you rack the slide while on safe or put safety on while hammer is down. I obviously wasn't familiar with the platform.
 
What you're beginning to realize, and what Walt really sent home, is that the CZ isn't just a typical DA/SA platform, but a very different design with features not available in any other DA/SA platform I'm aware of. Since you have options, CZ expresses in the manual what you can and can't do with a safety installed. Alas, as it turns out, with their design and the ability to swap out the decocker for a safety, there are serious caveats to consider. If you don't intend on carrying your P07 in Condition One, you should quickly eschew the safety and replace it with a decocker. The safety serves no other purpose than to carry the gun as a traditional single action, something you don't want to do. I did a quick search and came up with very little, so it sounds like you will have to contact CZ for a decocker kit (there are none on gunbroker anyway).

If you don't want to go through all the trouble, I would quickly get accustomed to the manual of arms for single action pistols, but always realizing that the gun will fire if the safety is off and the hammer is down. At least you will be able to visibly see the hammer rising and falling during this action, so I think it's pretty safe. For those of us that are more into single actions like 1911s and High Powers, the ability to carry a DA/SA cocked and locked is unique to CZs guns, and also helps get us into their platforms. I don't prefer DA/SA, only own one, and exclusively gravitate towards single action pistols. This makes any CZ DA/SA intriguing for guys like me, as we are not relegated to decockers and horrendous double action trigger pulls any longer. Long story short, you should have an idea in your head on how you will use that gun and plan accordingly.

And thanks for the post. I think some of us learned something today! I know I did!
 
shaunpain said:
What you're beginning to realize, and what Walt really sent home, is that the CZ isn't just a typical DA/SA platform, but a very different design with features not available in any other DA/SA platform I'm aware of. Since you have options, CZ expresses in the manual what you can and can't do with a safety installed. Alas, as it turns out, with their design and the ability to swap out the decocker for a safety, there are serious caveats to consider. If you don't intend on carrying your P07 in Condition One, you should quickly eschew the safety and replace it with a decocker. The safety serves no other purpose than to carry the gun as a traditional single action, something you don't want to do. I did a quick search and came up with very little, so it sounds like you will have to contact CZ for a decocker kit (there are none on gunbroker anyway).

If you don't want to go through all the trouble, I would quickly get accustomed to the manual of arms for single action pistols, but always realizing that the gun will fire if the safety is off and the hammer is down. At least you will be able to visibly see the hammer rising and falling during this action, so I think it's pretty safe. For those of us that are more into single actions like 1911s and High Powers, the ability to carry a DA/SA cocked and locked is unique to CZs guns, and also helps get us into their platforms. I don't prefer DA/SA, only own one, and exclusively gravitate towards single action pistols. This makes any CZ DA/SA intriguing for guys like me, as we are not relegated to decockers and horrendous double action trigger pulls any longer. Long story short, you should have an idea in your head on how you will use that gun and plan accordingly.

And thanks for the post. I think some of us learned something today! I know I did!
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Both HK and FN have had the option to do cocked and locked carry on their pistols for some time. They incorporate it into the decocker.
 
TunnelRat said:
Both HK and FN have had the option to do cocked and locked carry on their pistols for some time. They incorporate it into the decocker.
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I'm unfamiliar with the H&Ks and newer FNs...

Do those safety/decocker mechanisms work the same as other guns with the cocked & locked capability -- i.e., just nudge the safety lever down with your thumb when you're ready to fire if being carried cocked & locked?

Some of the guns I've been around that incorporated a single lever to put the gun on safe and also decock were awkward to use when carrying cocked & locked. Push too far and things don't always go as expected.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
I'm unfamiliar with the H&Ks and newer FNs...

Do those safety/decocker mechanisms work the same as other guns with the cocked & locked capability -- i.e., just nudge the safety lever down with your thumb when you're ready to fire if being carried cocked & locked?

Some of the guns I've been around that incorporated a single lever to put the gun on safe and also decock were awkward to use when carrying cocked & locked. Push too far and things don't always go as expected.
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Yea they do. The HK has a shelf when going off safe that seems to prevent it from going to decock most of the time but it can still happen if you do it very aggressively. Not sure on the FN. The HK USP series uses detent plates. You can order one for decock only or one for safety only for about $15 plus shipping and the swap takes maybe 5 minutes. The HK P series pistols with safety has two separate mechanisms, one for decock and one for safety. You can't add functionality after the factory like you can with the USP.
 
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