CZ P07 halfcock question

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Fullclip610

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Long time lurker, first time poster...love the site. Searched all over for this. I know you guys are all knowledgable (most of you)!

In the manual cz doesn't recommend using the safety while it is in the "halfcock" position bc cocking the hammer while the safety is engaged can damage the trigger assembly (or something). The safety can not be engaged with the hammer completely down or else I would just do that. My question is: am I damaging my gun by carrying it hammer half cocked, safety on as long as I don't pull the hammer back with the safety engaged?

Thanks in advance
 
I'm unfamiliar with the P-07 mechanism, but know that it is based on the Omega design. I can't really address your key question about possible damage. With the standard CZs (not the Omega mechanism), if the safety engages while in the half-cock position, something isn't right. I don't know that this is the case with the Omega fire control system, however.

That said, I do have a question for you: if you're already starting with the gun on half-cock and the safety is on, why not just start from the fully cocked position, with the safety on? That will give you a lighter, shorter trigger pull, and you go through the same procedure when you actually fire the gun.

If you're not comfortable doing that, why not just convert it to use the decocker mechanism. If the P-07 is like other CZ models, it will start from the half-cock position, and you don't have to worry about using the safety at all ('cause, when the decocker is installed, it doesn't have one.) Folks who use the decocker models don't seem to be concerned about needing a safety...In theory, the gun's only going to fire if you pull the trigger -- and the firing pin block system will prevent accidental discharges if it is dropped, etc.

What you're doing is sort of like wearing suspenders and a belt. Do you really need both (half-cock AND safety on?)
 
The stock P-07 comes with a decocker installed, which drops the hammer to half-cock when used. If you so desire, it is switchable to a traditional thumb safety, as they (CZ) include the alternate lever. My safety lever still in the box in it's plastic bag, and that is where it will stay.
 
Thanks for your answers. I don't really like the "cocked and locked" style as the hammer cocked all the time is kind of annoying. I will probably just go with hammer down, safety off. Btw, I got a dif version w/ night sights and extended barrel which only comes with the safety, no decocker. I just wanted to make sure the gun couldn't be damaged with safety on, half cocked. I'm guessing it's fine?
 
I think the manual also says pulling the trigger while at half cock with the safety on can damage the trigger, so there are two ways to screw it up.
 
Fullclip610, I know exactly which model you have, and you can switch that manual safety out for the decocker. Ya just gotta get the gear for it.
 
In the manual cz doesn't recommend using the safety while it is in the "halfcock" position bc (because) cocking the hammer while the safety is engaged can damage the trigger assembly (or something).
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The P07 comes with an interchangeable safety/decocker mechanism. This means that you can either have a da/sa gun with a decocker or a da/sa gun with a safety that allows for cocked and locked carry.

http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-p-07-9mm-black-polymer-interchangeable-back-straps-15-rd-mags/

Looking at the manual will explain how to change these if you care to. But it seems to me you have something else to figure out first which is what you're doing and why you're doing it. Or which you prefer and why.

Yes you can put the hammer in the half cock position and then engage the safety. But then why would you do that to begin with?

With the hammer fully down you are ready for a da pull and the gun is safe. At this point the only reason to put the hammer in the half cock position is that it makes the da pull a bit shorter. Also at this point the gun is safe and cannot fire till the hammer is pulled all the way to the rear, so there is no reason too engage the safety with the hammer on the half cock and doing so may damage the gun.

The safety is there only for when the gun is fully cocked.

The safety can not be engaged with the hammer completely down or else I would just do that.
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Why would you do this? The gun is safe with the hammer fully down and there is no need to engage the safety. The drop safeties are engaged at that point and the traditional safety of a da gun is the long trigger pull. The thumb safety only functions when the gun is fully cocked.

My question is: am I damaging my gun by carrying it hammer half cocked, safety on as long as I don't pull the hammer back with the safety engaged
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Thanks for your answers. I don't really like the "cocked and locked" style as the hammer cocked all the time is kind of annoying. I will probably just go with hammer down, safety off. Btw, I got a dif version w/ night sights and extended barrel which only comes with the safety, no decocker. I just wanted to make sure the gun couldn't be damaged with safety on, half cocked. I'm guessing it's fine?
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Yes you would be damaging it, at least according to the manual. The manual is quite clear on this it says don't do it. You also increase the likelihood of a mistake occurring. But here we also get to the question of why you want to place the hammer on the half cock and then engage the safety?

From the manual...

Safety Stop on the Hammer
A half-cock safety notch is on the hammer so as to prevent it from striking the firing pin
when the hammer is manually cocked, and a thumb could slip. When the hammer is on the
safety stop, it is not leaning against the firing pin stop, but its position is further back.
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and from page 6&7...

...The safety in this position blocks the trigger mechanism and slide, thus preventing
the pulling of the trigger and operating the slide. The safety lever can be set to the "Safe"
position even with the hammer on safety notch. However, it is not recommended that the
safety be engaged while in this state as any forced cocking of the hammer could damage the trigger mechanism.
Click to expand...

tipoc
 
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As has been said indirectly, above, with your gun on the half-cock notch, it will function EXACTLY like the decocker model at the start, and be at least as safe. The decocker versions doesn't have a safety! Many guns with decockers don't have a safety that can be easily engaged, and I can tell you from experience and from watching other shooters, most of the safeties on decocker guns aren't used. (That was case with many 3rd Generation S&W semis.) And some guns don't have a safety lever at all. Several of the SIGs I've owned come to mind.

If you're going to always start from half-cock, and decock to half-cock, it's simpler and easier to use the decocker mechanism, and not worry about the safety. You should have had one in the factory box. If you didn't I suspect CZ will send you one for nothing. Deactivating the gun, when you don't have a decocker mechanism installed, requires that you manually decock the gun or use the safety with the hammer fully cocked -- otherwise it remains cocked but not locked.

Your CZ is equipped with a firing pin block, that won't allow the firing pin to move unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. Are you comfortable manually decocking the gun? Since you must pull the trigger fully to the rear to release the hammer, you will also briefly bypass the firing pin block mechanism while doing that. The likelihood of a negligent discharge while decocking is pretty small, especially if you practice, but installing the decocker mechanism bypasses that potential problem altogether, by not requiring trigger movement.

With proper practice manual decocking is very safe -- especially if the gun is pointed in a safe direction (rule #1). But so is carrying a weapon cocked and locked. And, more importantly, even if you COULD use the safety when the hammer is fully down or on the half-cock notch -- you gain nothing in terms of added safety by doing so -- but you make the process of putting the gun into action both slower and more complicated. And there are time, in personal and home defense, when you don't want to have to be confronted with slower and more complicated processes. (As noted in prior responses, if you try to use the trigger with the safety on and the hammer on the half-cock notch, it WILL work, but you could damage the gun. And if you're nervous, dealing with a threat... who knows what's going to happen?
 
If you're going to always start from half-cock, and decock to half-cock, it's simpler and easier to use the decocker mechanism, and not worry about the safety. You should have had one in the factory box.
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A number of P-07s came from the factory in just the safety configuration without the decocker. It even says on the cardboard sheath that the decocker is not within the case. Not sure why they did this, but I have seen this configuration at a number of gun stores.

Your CZ is equipped with a firing pin block, that won't allow the firing pin to move unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. Are you comfortable manually decocking the gun? Since you must pull the trigger fully to the rear to release the hammer, you will also briefly bypass the firing pin block mechanism while doing that. The likelihood of a negligent discharge while decocking is pretty small, especially if you practice, but installing the decocker mechanism bypasses that potential problem altogether, by not requiring trigger movement.
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Can't agree more. If you're just going to run the gun as a DA pistol, call CZ and get the decocker part and then install it. No chance of a negligent discharge is infinitely less than 1% chance of a negligent discharge.
 
Thanks for the replies & advice. I'll say it again though, my version doesn't come with a decocker :D I'm totally fine with manually decocking the hammer. And I started carrying with hammer down, no safety. I just wanted to get y'all's input to see if what I WAS doing damages the gun. My view was that its fine as long as you don't pull trigger/cock hammer while safety is on halfcock. As long as it just stays on halfcock w no hammer movement it's fine.
 
While your version DIDN'T come with a decocker, I'm reasonably sure one can be installed. (It's unlikely they made other limiting internal changes to the gun just because that model has a slightly different barrel and night sights.)

Since you're otherwise treating the gun LIKE a decocker version why not just install the decocker? It simplifies handling and does NOTHING to degrade how the gun performs, using it the way you do.

In addition to potentially damaging your weapon -- and all of us at different times have tried to fire a gun with the safety on -- you've GAINED NOTHING by using the safety when the gun is on half-cock -- except, perhaps, a false sense of added safety.

If the hammer drops from that position it will not ignite the primer because 1) the hammer will not have sufficient force, and 2) the firing pin block will not allow the firing pin to move. For the hammer to fall and ignite the primer YOU HAVE TO PULL THE TRIGGER and RELEASE the hammer (by fumbling while decocking) or by completing the trigger stroke.
 
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My view was that its fine as long as you don't pull trigger/cock hammer while safety is on halfcock. As long as it just stays on halfcock w no hammer movement it's fine.
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OK, but why would you want to engage the safety while the gun is on the halfcock notch? What benefit do you see getting from this?

Also which version of the gun do you have? Do you have a name or SKU number?

tipoc
 
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i am also curious, as i have never heard that before, does it cause damage to have safety on during half-cock? havent seen an answer to his question yet
 
Tipoc:"OK, but why would you want to engage the safety while the gun is on the halfcock notch? What benefit do you see getting from this?"

I engage the safety at half cock bc you CAN'T engage it when the hammer is down. I'd rather just use the safety when hammer is down but the design won't allow me. That's why. And I don't like "cocked and locked." I understand a lot of ppl that commented don't like manual safeties but different ppl have different preferences. There is a reason why manufacturers make guns with safeties, bc there is a market for them. Like the poster right before me, all I wanted to know is if it damages the gun. The manual says if the hammer is cocked while gun is on "safe" there is a possibility of damage.
 
Tipoc: from the cz sight: "Note- Some CZ-USA dealers order special versions that vary from the standard configuration. This might be a difference in sights, safety mechanisms, finish or accessory package. From time to time you may find a P-07 with an extended barrel, tactical light, tritium sights or safety levers only. There are a number of special versions we ship throughout the year.

The version I have is with tritium sights, safety only (no decocker), and a barrel that extends past the slide (think beretta 92fs),
 
I understand a lot of ppl that commented don't like manual safeties but different ppl have different preferences. There is a reason why manufacturers make guns with safeties, bc there is a market for them.
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I generally advise people using their pistols as the manufacturer recommends. Given that no one has shown what you're doing aligns with that, I am not surprised people suggest you change your ways. There is nothing wrong with wanting a safety. If you want hammer down safety on, there are a number of manufacturers that offer that as an option. I'd wager that decocking manually just to get to that safety is actually more dangerous than running it cocked and locked.
 
Gang, I am pretty sure this is the model that Fullclip has...
6d73c9c479588d970c0629abbf5433ef.jpg
 
While we're on the subject, my manual also states that "The use of safety is... convenient for short interruptions of firing only." Which seems to imply that the pistol is NOT meant to be carried "cocked and locked".:eek: (Yes I realize this was probably inserted by CZ's lawyers.)
 
Knights: I agree. We all have to admit that manuals say a lot of dumb stuff. Don't leave a firearm loaded, etc. That's why I was asking the question. It seems CZ doesn't recommend it bc they think ppl will cock the hammer while its on safe. But what if I'm not an idiot and can somehow restrain myself from cocking the hammer while the safety is engaged?

This gun is awesome that's why I want to see what the deal with this issue is instead of just getting a different gun.
 
Good on you, Fullclip! Since these things were designed for cops and soldiers I doubt they're as fragile as the manual makes them out to be. A P-07 is on my short list to keep my 75B Omega company.
 
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