CZ P-09

I am getting the impression that a P-09 or P-07 can be responsibly carried in several ways:

1. hammer cocked and safety locked,
2. hammer half cocked and safety locked,
3. hammer half cocked and safety unlocked,
4. hammer down and safety locked, and
5. hammer down and safety unlocked.

Walt seems to be saying that carry method #3 is acceptably safe, and that #2 is more complicated than #3 because an extra step is required to make the gun ready to fire. skizzums seems to be saying #3 is safer than #2, and he is not bothered by the need to unlock the safety before firing. Walt's statements seem undeniably true, but so is skizzums's initial position, while his second position (not being bothered by needing to unsafe the gun) is a matter of preference, which is undebateable.

With regard to relative safety of the above five responsible carry modes, I rank them as follows from safest to least safe (while regarding all as responsibly safe): 4, 2, 1, 5, and 3. In ordering these I ignore the necessary risk involved in needing to manually decock the hammer from the half cock position to get it fully down, as I am thinking of the relative likelihood of the gun generating an ND should it find itself in the hands of a neophyte.
 
Limnophile said:
Walt seems to be saying that carry method #3 is acceptably safe, and that #2 is more complicated than #3 because an extra step is required to make the gun ready to fire.
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What he was TRYING to say (apparently without success) was that the steps required to do half-cock/safety and fully-cocked/safety are the same.

The unnecessary "complication" wasn't an extra step, but that the trigger pulls (first and subsequent shots) are different when starting from the half-cock notch than when starting from fully-cocked and locked.

If the trigger pulls for the second and later shots aren't a problem for the shooter, why would having the same trigger pull for the first shot be a problem?

Leaving the P-07 on the half cock notch as a form of decocking is perfectly fine -- the decocker models do that and they don't have safeties. The firing pin block still works in any of the models: the gun will only fire if the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. A finger on the trigger too soon or too hard is a different issue, and it would be an issue when shooting in any of the modes addressed.
 
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Woah we're getting in the weeds now. :cool:

I would never have even thought of "hammer down" as not being at the half cock position because all the CZs I have are decocker models which automatically decock to the half cock position, and when I think of putting the hammer down I think of decocking.

For those of you with CZs that only have manual safeties equipped, were you to decock do you drop the hammer all the way down or to the half cock position?
 
Woah we're getting in the weeds now.
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Yes, we are, but it can be fun and interesting in the weeds. I would have never guessed that there are five ways to carry a P-07/P-09.

I would never have even thought of "hammer down" as not being at the half cock position because all the CZs I have are decocker models which automatically decock to the half cock position, and when I think of putting the hammer down I think of decocking.

For those of you with CZs that only have manual safeties equipped, were you to decock do you drop the hammer all the way down or to the half cock position?
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As I recall, the instruction manual for the CZ 75 says to decock to the half-cock position for Condition 2 carry, which is how I would do it if I carried in that mode. As Walt notes, the trigger pull is somewhat lighter than from the hammer-down position, and the trigger reach is a bit shorter. The half cock is a safety in the sense that it is intended to make decocking safer; one would have to be awfully inattentive or uncoordinated to ND a safety-equipped CZ while decocking to the half cock.

But, I think the combat gaming organizations require the hammer to be fully down at the start. I don't know if this applies to both decocker-equipped CZs, but it is a requirement for the safety-equipped ones.
 
TunnelRat said:
For those of you with CZs that only have manual safeties equipped, were you to decock do you drop the hammer all the way down or to the half cock position?
Click to expand...

It varies. For most CZ shooters, it's not necessarily a common or frequent exercise.

If I'm going to carry a CZ, I'd 1) probably NOT decock, and just flip on the safety; or 2) leave the hammer on the half-cock notch (explained below). My first pre-B CZ was on older model, and the half-cock notch came later -- that was a source of puzzlement for me for a while.

At the range I either use the safety (if there are rounds still in the mag, and I'm not through), or drop the mag and clear the weapon. Most often I'll clear it by shooting it to slide lock. :)

In the gun games (unless I'm shooting IDPA Enhanced Service Pistol, which allows a cocked & locked start), I point the gun down range, and slowly pull the trigger while lowering the hammer with my offhand. I do that more for the Safety Officer's peace of mind as he observes the "load and make ready" routine than because I really think it necessary.

If I were decocking at the range -- which I don't usually do -- I'd probably do it one-handed with the gun pointed downrange. Practice makes it both safe and easy to do. The gun pointed in a safe direction is the key, regardless of how you do it.

For those unfamiliar with the CZ mechanism:

When decocking, if you release the trigger about half-way through the trigger stroke/hammer drop process, the firing pin block kicks in, but the hammer can still be lowered. Do it just right and the hammer can be made to stop at the half-cock notch.

If you miss that notch and you keep the trigger depressed you can lower the hammer all the way down; then if you want it on the half-cock notch (and missed it on the way down), you just pull the hammer back a bit.

The concern about negligent discharges while decocking probably had a basis somewhere in time, but darned few people have ever seen or experienced one. Other gun-handling activities worry me far more than decocking...

Note: people shooting revolvers decock their weapons all the time, but nobody seems to be concerned about them. Why is that?
 
That's very detailed, but I don't think you actually answered the question.

Edit: Yea you did, I just didn't scan all that text closely enough, sorry.
 
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