CZ P-09

K

KANSAS K-9

Inactive
I just purchased a CZ p-09
How do people prefer to carry guns with decockers on them do you use the decocker or install the safety ???
Thank you
 
Load a round in the chamber and then decock the gun. Add an extra round in the magazine if you want to or holster the gun.

I like decockers, but not safeties.
 
It's a matter of your personal preference. If you prefer Condition 2 carry, leave the decocker in place and use it, while pointing the gun in a safe direction, to decock after loading prior to holstering. If you prefer Condition 1 carry, install the safety lock and safe the gun after loading prior to holstering.

I think most CZ P-07/09 owners use the decocker. I've read many complaints about the safety lever being too small for ease of unsafing. It would be nice if CZ remedied that, or if Cajun Gun Works or CZ Custom offered a wider safety lever.
 
I'm partial to the safety myself. My Taurus PT 92 is handy in that it has both a decocker and safety in the same lever. If I had to choose one, though, I'd definitely go with a safety.
 
This is my first double action semi auto
Heck of a gun, but the hammer all the way back with gun on safety kinda freaked me out at first
 
K-9,

Try both ways of carrying before you decide which mode to commit yourself to. All my CZs have safeties, so I carry Condition 1. Carry the gun unloaded for a while if cocked and locked seems spooky. You'll find (hopefully) that the safety doesn't disengage on its own. Also check out how your firing pin block works when you have the gun field stripped. You'll find it's impossible for the firing pin to strike the primer on a chambered round unless you pull the trigger.

Carrying Condition 1 gives you a consistent trigger pull for each shot; the long, heavy initial DA trigger pull, which cripples precision. Many will argue this is not so, but you can prove it by shooting several groups DA only and comparing the results to a same number of groups shot SA only. The average size of the latter groups are virtually assured to be smaller (ie, more precise).

The biggest concern expressed about Condition 1 carry is one might forget to unsafe the gun when it is drawn under stress. Training will overcome this concern. The first time you pull the trigger at the range and the gun fails to fire because you forgot to flick the safety off, you may lower the gun and stare at it dumbfounded. Once you realize what happened (or didn't), when it happens again you won't need to lower the gun, but just flick off the safety. Training by practicing your draw and presentation with an empty gun at home will make unsafing the gun automatic.

If one can train to keep one's booger hoom off the bang switch, one can train to unsafe a gun during the draw, no sooner than when the gun is rotated from vertical to point downrange.

skizzums,

Can a P-07 be safed while half cocked? My 83s cannot be safed while uncocked, and my 75 Compact cannot be safed while uncocked or half cocked. I would prefer having a safety that worked regardless of the position of the hammer.
 
It's a matter of your personal preference. If you prefer Condition 2 carry, leave the decocker in place and use it, while pointing the gun in a safe direction, to decock after loading prior to holstering.
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While it's ALWAYS a good idea to point a gun in a safe direction when decocking, most of the newer guns have a firing pin block that makes it physically impossible for the gun to accidentally/negligently bedischarge when they are being decocked -- if you keep your fingers away from the trigger. That is certainly the case with CZs. (Note: I'm not advocating that you NOT point the gun in a safe direction when decocking it, but am simply making the point that there is little reason for concern...)

I have a P-07 with the safety installed. The main complaint I've heard about the P-07/P-09 with the safety installed is that the safety lever is a bit harder to disengage than other CZ models. Mine works fine, and I have no problem releasing/disengaging the safety. (I suspect there will be an aftermarket lever available one of these days to make that a non-issue.)

I bought mine used, and it came without hard case, the manual, or the decocker parts -- with ONE extra mag -- great price, though.

The safety on my P-07 WILL engage when the hammer is on the safe/half-cock notch. In that position, it also LOCKS the hammer in that position, so that you can't fully cock the hammer without releasing the safety. I can't think of any good reason to want to engage safety with the hammer in that position -- you might as well have the decocker installed. Unless you pull the trigger, the firing pin block should prevent accidental discharges (drops or slams.)

The safeties used with the older non-Omega system CZs won't allow that -- unless something is worn.
 
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I have an older p07 with extended barrel and night sights. It only came with the safety and no decocker. Chambered round, half cock, safety on.
 
I understand that there in no "logical" reason for stey on and half-cock. it's just my preference. please note, if this is how you carry, don't squezze the trigger in half-cock or try to pull the hammer back with releasing the safety, supposedly....it can damage something.
 
So it's bad if the safety is on and you cock the hammer manually? I guess you wouldn't be able to use the trigger if the safety was on. You CAN shoot it from half cock, correct?
 
of course, it's just if you, I suppose, accidentally squeeze the trigger on half cock you could be damaging (something). Or if your trying to yank the hammer back while half cocked with safety on. both of these scenario's say one thing to me, don't be playing with your gun's trigger and hammer while half-cocked and safety on, since that's the only scenario I see that happening in, playing
 
So it's bad if the safety is on and you cock the hammer manually? I guess you wouldn't be able to use the trigger if the safety was on. You CAN shoot it from half cock, correct?
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Note: My P-07 is one of the first generation models. It doesn't have the interchangeable back straps for example. (I bought mine used and it didn't have the decocker mechanism with it -- I wouldn't have used it, anyway.)

With that model, if you engage the safety while the gun's at half-cock, you can't manually cock the hammer until you release the safety. It may be that the second generation models work differently, but I suspect they are the same -- there seems to be no real differences when looking at the parts diagrams.​

The trigger or the hammer won't move if the safety is engaged. Leaving the hammer on the half-cock notch with the safety engaged complicates things: you must still release the safety before you do anything else --and then you must either cope with a longer, heavier trigger pull, or manually cocking the hammer fully to the rear. Why do that?

Using the decocker mechanism to decock a decocker-equipped CZ lowers the hammer to the half-cock notch. At that point, a decocker model is no different than a safety-equipped model with the hammer on the half-cock notch. Both have a firing pin block that won't let the gun fire unless the trigger is pulled FULLY to the rear -- a drop or blow won't make it fire.

Manually decocking a safety-equipped model will allow you to lower the hammer completely -- which is required for IDPA or USPSA competition when shooting safety-equipped models in the Stock Service Pistol or Production divisions. Fully-hammer down makes for a somewhat longer trigger pull that is slightly heavier. (Cocked and locked can put you in a different competition group.) For carry (not Gun Game) purposes, pulling the hammer back to the half-cock notch leaves the gun EXACTLY where the decocker mechanism leaves the hammer after the weapon is loaded and decocked -- there's no "safety" difference. Engaging the safety when the hammer is on the half-cock notch just complicates things.

As I've noted in other discussion, manually decocking a weapon is a basic gun handling skill, and done properly, it's very safe. But like other things you might do with a gun, you must pay attention and learn to do it right!
 
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half-cock with the safety on doesn't "complicate" anything. it just let's me have a manual safety, which I prefer, and a slightly shorter pull over hammer down. why is that so frustrating to some people. what's wrong with an extra safeguard? I safety off as I draw the weapon, then ready to fire from a slightly lighter half-cock, rather than a heavy full DA or a hair SA. I like half-cock, it's what makes me feel most comfortable with the platform. I don't stare dumb-founded at my gun because the safety is on, if that was the case, I would probably hate safeties....

but I don't understand what your saying about manually cocking after releasing the safety, I can just take off the safety and shoot from half cock, maybe we are talking about different things.
 
Carrying Condition 1 gives you a consistent trigger pull for each shot; the long, heavy initial DA trigger pull, which cripples precision. Many will argue this is not so, but you can prove it by shooting several groups DA only and comparing the results to a same number of groups shot SA only. The average size of the latter groups are virtually assured to be smaller (ie, more precise).

The biggest concern expressed about Condition 1 carry is one might forget to unsafe the gun when it is drawn under stress. Training will overcome this concern. The first time you pull the trigger at the range and the gun fails to fire because you forgot to flick the safety off, you may lower the gun and stare at it dumbfounded. Once you realize what happened (or didn't), when it happens again you won't need to lower the gun, but just flick off the safety. Training by practicing your draw and presentation with an empty gun at home will make unsafing the gun automatic.

If one can train to keep one's booger hoom off the bang switch, one can train to unsafe a gun during the draw, no sooner than when the gun is rotated from vertical to point downrange.
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I don't seem to have much trouble with the DA to SA transition. In relationship to your second paragraph, it's more of a training issue. Some have less issues than others though and some DA/SA models are more accurate than others. No doubt that shooting a DA/SA model in DA for a full magazine would likely result in larger groups than shooting the same gun in SA. Much the same way it would be slower on a speed drill to have to work the safety between each shot on a gun equipped with one vs one without a safety. Not a big deal since that's not how either design is used in the real world. The closest I get to all DA fire is when I do DA to SA transition drills. Here I shoot the first round in DA followed by a SA round. Decock the gun, set it down, and then pick it up and fire it again for two rounds. Some times there is a little more spread than I like, sometimes there is only one hole from both rounds, and most times the holes are really close together. The same can even be said for a similar drill minus the decocking on my striker fired guns or DA/SA when left in SA mode.
 
The transition from DA to SA is (in my opinion) not the huge obstacle people make it out to be. I came from SA 1911's and striker fired guns. It took a couple of months to be able to score hits with the DA trigger. If training can overcome the possibility of not disengaging a manual safety so can training overcome that first longer and heavier pull. And what you get in return is a nice trigger for follow up shots and no manual safety to worry about. For me it's become the best of both worlds. I have a gun that I can draw and fire without manipulating a safety that also has an excellent light trigger pull.
 
skizzums said:
half-cock with the safety on doesn't "complicate" anything.
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Starting the P-07 from the half cock notch with safety on does lighten and shorten the trigger a bit, but it doesn't lighten or shorten it as much as fully cocked and locked. It also makes for different trigger pulls between the first shot and subsequent shots -- which will be even lighter and shorter than the first trigger pull. Some folks would consider THOSE DIFFERENT TRIGGER PULLS a complication,

With the decocker installed in the P-07 you get exactly the same trigger pull as when using your half-cock/safety approach and there's no safety to disengage. Using the safety is also a complication, but one you clearly don't mind..

Fully hammer down is far simpler than using the safety still but requires a heavier and longer pull on the first shot than either the decocker or half-cock safety modes, with an even greater DA/SA trigger pull difference. That simplification that comes at a price that creates a complication. I don't like fully hammer down. (If I carry my P-07, it will likely be either cocked and locked or on the half-cock notch, but no safety. That's not the case with my other CZ, or my AT-84s [a custom gun] based on the CZ pattern, where cocked & locked works best of all.)

Some folks also love the Witness/Tanfoglio design (based on the original CZ pattern) which allows the safety to be engaged with the hammer down or at half-cock. I'm sure they feel THAT is safer, too.​

skizzums said:
it just let's me have a manual safety, which I prefer, and a slightly shorter pull over hammer down. why is that so frustrating to some people. what's wrong with an extra safeguard?
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It's not really frustrating for me. I just can't always follow the logic of the arguments as presented. I suspect you'll disagree with my logic, as well.

Fully cocked and locked gives you a lighter and shorter trigger than decocker or half-cock/safety, but one that is the same for all shots fired -- and a safety, too!

What have you really GAINED by starting from half-cocked and safety engaged rather than fully-cocked and safety engaged? The safety is still there. It seems you consider the heavier, longer first trigger pull a safety feature.

skizzums said:
I safety off as I draw the weapon, then ready to fire from a slightly lighter half-cock, rather than a heavy full DA or a hair SA.
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Unless you've modified your gun with a different sear or polishing of the hammer/sear interface, new springs, other polishing and after-market parts, there's no reason to even mention a "hair SA" trigger when talking about a stock CZ handgun. The term just doesn't apply. :)

It sounds as though you'd really be happier with a smooth DAO semi-auot, or a good striker-fired one, some of which can be had with safeties!! Most of my recently acquired guns have been striker-fired semi-autos, and a couple of them have very good triggers! (My SR9c has a good trigger AND a safety, too -- which I typically don't use.)

You can argue that your method of using half-cock and the safety lever lets you feel more in control and, therefore, more safe. I won't argue with that. But your reasoning just doesn't work for me. It doesn't have to. :)

.
 
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