CZ P-07 Appreciation Thread

I need to get into reloading. That's probably the next thing I'll do. Unless of course you people talk me into adding an SDP first haha.
 
Walt Sherrill said:
(And I won't be surprised, in a year or two, to see a new striker-fired CZ. They did it with the CZ-100... The trigger in the P-07/P-09 is very good, and they don't have a lot of pressure to improve THAT part of the gun.)
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A few design changes to the original CZ 100, with possible influence from the P-07 in regards to the trigger, universal rail, grip texture/stippling, and a good set of night sights, and I think it'd sell like hotcakes (I absolutely love mine).
 
My issue with the possibility of patterning a striker-fired gun after the P-series guns would be the bore axis. I could be crazy but the axis on these guns don’t seem to be as low as everyone always seem to proclaim. Is it high? No. Not really. It just is what it is. And it’s very shootable as is. Talking to people that know more than I do a lot of the P-series shootability comes from it being a hammer fired gun because of the resistance the hammer assembly provides in slowing the slide down. Don’t know if that’s true or exactly where I've heard that but one of the comments was that if the P-series were striker fired they wouldn't be nearly as good tracking shot to shot as they are. May have been Mike Pannone I saw that comment from? I don’t know. Maybe someone who knows more than I do can comment.
 
TBT said:
...Talking to people that know more than I do a lot of the P-series shootability comes from it being a hammer fired gun because of the resistance the hammer assembly provides in slowing the slide down. Don’t know if that’s true or exactly where I've heard that but one of the comments was that if the P-series were striker fired they wouldn't be nearly as good tracking shot to shot as they are. May have been Mike Pannone I saw that comment from? I don’t know. Maybe someone who knows more than I do can comment.
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The following comments are conjecture, and I welcome different or opposing viewpoints, as there may be points I'm overlooking -- and I'd like to know if that is the case.

I've not encountered the argument (underlined above) in years of reading on this subject, and I'm a long-time CZ enthusiast. There could be something to it -- but I suspect there are ways to compensate for changes that would come with moving to a striker assembly in place of a hammer assembly. (As I note below, a heavier slide can be used to slow slide velocity, if that is desired -- as can a heavier recoil spring.)

The hammer spring does the slowing, as it is compressed by the slide movement. The weight of that spring is frequently modified to give a lighter or heavier hammer strike. A heavier hammer spring affects felt recoil by storing a small additional amount of the recoil force and passing it back to the frame when the hammer is dropped. I suspect that most of us would notice something different (if only a heavier trigger), but not notice much difference in recoil -- except, that with heavier recoil springs, the recoil sometimes feels subtly longer and maybe gentler. (It's mostly illusion, just spreading the recoil out a bit as the heavier spring slows and stores.)

While the hammer spring DOES help slow the slide, I suspect that any resistance at that point in the firing cycle could easily be compensated for by a different recoil spring and/or by adding a buffer in the recoil spring assembly. Even variable rate springs or dual spring assemblies might have the desired effect. I the spring is too strong, the slide is hard to rack, which is probably one of the reasons some of the force is used to charge or partially charge striker springs.

Some pros use very light recoil springs to allow greater slide velocity and then use buffers to "cushion" the impact as the slide slams to the rear -- *which helps reduce barrel rise. Faster slide and less flip. (*An addition to the original comment, for clarity's sake.)

(The buffers aren't used to protect the frame, but to change the shape of the recoil impulse.) I've heard of that technique used with with striker-fired guns, but suspect it would work with hammer fired guns, too. As is the case with the hammer spring, the force hitting and being absorbed/affected by the buffer isn't directly returned as the slide slams forward -- a fraction (perhaps very small?) of the stored recoil force is delayed until the trigger is pulled. Slowing down the slide is NOT the objective for some shooters.

The main function of the recoil spring is to make the gun function (load the next round, cock the hammer or charge (or partially charge) the striker spring, and not to protect the gun or the shooter from recoil. (Heavier slides can be used in place of heavier springs, if slide velocity is a concern.)

A heavier recoil spring alone can cause some barrel DIP as the slide slams home, but a less strong recoil spring with a buffer seems to offset that natural "dip" in some gun designs. A too-heavy recoil spring alone can be a problem, causing more dip, and while the gun still functions, it can take longer for the gun to be brought back on target. (This is seldom discussed on these forums, but there are great examples shown in videos on YouTube.)

It's a design/user choice issue. There are a LOT of striker-fired guns used in the gun games with great success. I think we'll start to see Gray Guns-tuned SIG P320 out there in the near future (in the IDPA SSP or USPSA Production divisions).

Would a P-series CZ not stack up? Hard to say until we see it done ... but I suspect it's coming. (That too is conjecture.)

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It's all over my pay grade Walt. I'm pretty sure that the comment was in the P-07 thread at m4Carbine forum but I couldn't be entirely sure. And I could be misquoting it as well. That thread is a huge to search through though. Maybe I will if I get the time.
 
All I can find is Randy from Apex talking about the benifits of the way CZ was able to extend the mechanical dwell time of the barrel etc.

Apologies in regards to my poor memory. I think there was more discussed on it but I can't find it. Until I do just assume that I'm insane and should have kept my mouth shut.
 
Hopefully, others here will have some thoughts on the topic. You're doing exactly what I do sometimes -- pose a question to see what answers can be found.

As noted in my comments, SPEEDING UP THE SLIDE was the intent of some of the pros... so a slower slide isn't always a desireable trait. (The pros I mentioned talked about speeding up the slide, and using a buffer to keep barrel rise a low as possible.)

I wonder if any of us participating here have the reflexes and/or ability to capitalize on any of the potential advantage?

A few of the pros probably do... but as we've discussed elsewhere, the guys with the best scores aren't always the fastest. Many of the best pros seem almost slow as they go through a course of fire, but their times can be astounding!
 
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It was a comment from Mike Pannone:

The bore axis is about 3/16" higher based on back-strap/bore axis dimensions but the addition of a hammer adds to the force holding the slide locked longer. Striker fired guns tend to unlock faster. For that very reason my LW 1911 CCO in 9mm shoots softer than my G19,17 or 35. Bore axis is critical when it is dramatic and on the same locking/mechanical system. I shoot both and the P-series guns shoot softer, especially the P09. There is absolutely no way not to notice when you shoot them side by side. That said my P09 shoots softer than my SP01 as well.
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Not sure if that's all valid or if I read too much into what he was saying.

Hopefully it's okay for me to post that...
 
He seems to be talking about the shooting experience -- and that may be valid. But I suspect some of the same "effect" could be achieved with different springs, recoil systems, and buffers. The fact that the P-07 and P-09 have polymer frames, and the SP-01 doesn't, may affect felt recoil, too. Plus the fact that the larger P-09 is heavier and has more polymer to distribute recoil force through it. (Polymer can be, in effect, a very modest buffer-- between the gun and you.) A heavier slide could slow down the faster movement of the slide in a striker-equipped gun, too.

The SP-01 has a steel frame and is heavier! I'm surprised that the P-09 feels "softer" than the SP-01, but I've not shot either of those guns. Most folks rave about the SP-01. I wonder if we're going to see some "tricked-out" P-09 used in the gun games, soon? They'll probably have to come up with somewhat wider grips -- and higher-cap mags. The newest versions have interchangeable grips, I think, and that may address the somewhat thinner grips on the P-07/P-09. (They're not THAT thin, but do feel different in the hand than some CZs and CZ-pattern guns.)

Nothing to argue with in his analysis -- but it seems to be more about how the gun FEELS when being shot than how it well it performs.

.
 
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I've actually heard several people muse over the P-series being softer shooting the metal offerings from CZ. I've never fired an SP-01 or P-01 so I can't offer any experience myself.
 
Just passed 6000 rounds and she still looks like new.

ry%3D400


Not that you can tell with the crappy cell phone pic...

Hope the moderation team doesn't mind me keeping this thread going as a running round count/experiences thread.
 
Good to hear. You won't be disappointed. They've ringed out some excellent accuracy from this design and from what I can tell they are highly reliable.

After 6000 rounds I would describe my bone-stock trigger on my P-07 as:

D/A - It "feels" like it is a pound or two lighter than it was new. It's very smooth but it was pretty smooth NIB though. It's a very consistent pull with little to no stacking and then a nice break.

S/A - Probably the same. It's very light. If I'm going to be picky it kind of "rolls" through the break as opposed to the preferable "glass break". It's my understanding that this is due to the geometry of certain parts (that are easily and affordably replaced with CGW parts) but I'm not prone to altering things and find my performance to be beyond acceptable so I'm in no hurry to change things.

Reset - I'm not a reset guy. I don't notice it in live fire like some do. In my kitchen, yeah. And I would describe it as very crisp and deliberate, though somewhat longer than the newest striker fire resets like the PPQ.
 
The upgrade version of the P-07 with the interchangeable safety and decocker is the best handgun design idea I've seen in a long time. The omega trigger is excellent!
 
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