Cycling AR 15

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timlab55

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I have perfered to fire subsonic rounds (.223) out of my AR15. I know that once I fire it, I have to make sure that a round has ejected and a new round is inserted. But my AR15 bolt doesn't even move with a light buffer or a heavy buffer. I've tried 1 round with a 2.1oz buffer and the next buffer was 5.6oz. So what's story here? Did I have to put in an H2 buffer and try that to see if it works even tho the two above mentioned didn't work? Now, in addition to this, in 9 days I should be getting word about my suppressor. Will this help with this cycling or what? I'm lost, please help.
THanks
 
First, does it work with NATO spec ammunition?

Second, if the answer to Q1 is yes, I wonder if enough gas traveling down the tube to push the carrier back?
 
I'm sorry new to the gun world. I know that my AR will fire .223 and 5.56 NATO rounds. As for NATO spec ammunition, I have no clue.
 
I have perfered to fire subsonic rounds (.223) out of my AR15.

Subsonic means below the speed of sound. The speed of sound (in air) is about 1125fps at 68 F at sea level. It changes with temp and altitude.

for general use, call it 1100fps. Your subsonic ammo will be slower than that. That is about 1/3 of the velocity of standard 55gr .223 ammo. Your rifle is made to run on standard velocity ammo, not super light stuff.

Changing the buffer or any other single part won't set up the rifle to shoot the subsonic ammo, you need to tune every part of the system to run super light ammo. Gas system, springs all of it needs to be set up special to run super light ammo.
 
yeah someone mentioned "ar-10 308 sub-sonic" and the best response to that was "that's clown shoes" ;/

well it may not be clown shoes, but normal ar-15 with sub-sonic rounds, will require a major change (set of changes) to achieve proper functioning.

yes the muffler will help improve the amount of gas/pressure available to the bcg. but that's only one part.

add to that a very light buffer spring, and good lube. maybe enough...
 
If you set it up to run subsonic loads you can't use standard velocity ammo anymore unless you change it all back.
 
Yes, the suppressor should help, im just dont know for sure if it will be enough to make the action cycle.

A light buffer will help you the most.
 
I don't see the point of shooting subsonic .223. You might as well be shooting .22LR or perhaps, .22 shorts.

The only advantage to shooting subsonic rifle rounds is to remove the supersonic "crack" of the bullet. A suppressor or "silencer" only damps the muzzle blast, not the crack a supersonic bullet will make every time it passes close enough to a solid object. That is what subsonic rifle rounds are for, being as quiet as possible, and sacrificing high velocity performance to do so.

Not something regular civilian shooters usually need to worry about.
 
I finally got my suppersor and to no avail. I added a light buffer to the mix and still no avail. I will try the light buffer and order the light spring on Monday and see if that will do the trick. If not, I guess I out of luck unless someone comes by and makes another suggestion. The adjustable gas block, I've heard is my last attempt in making this work. With the suppersor on, I know I have lots of gas from shooting 5.56 rounds yesterday. Normally without the suppersor and just the muzzle block, the kick is hardly there. But once I added the suppersor, I felt it more. So I know there is lots of gas (I think).
 
AR15's (223) and Ar10's (308) were not made to cycle with sub sonics. Not only do they do not cycle, they're not really made to hand extract fired brass reliably/easily/repeatedly. Would consider not spending money playing guess and check switching components. An adjustable gas block is designed to reduce gas flow, not increase it. And like everything else, there may be exceptions with enough funding to start increasing the gas port size and everything else connected to try and get enough gas.

Or get a 300 blackout upper, if your suppressor is more than 223.

A FAL can have it's gas turned off, and reliably hand extract a sub sonic. If was wanting an Ar (223) for single shot suppressed subsonic, would suggest trying (some one else's) a subsonic in one of the newer side chargers, with a sturdy side charging handle.
 
The type of suppressor I have is called the CAnooter VAlve Suppressor. It has .223 imprinted on the can, so I guess I can't use the suppressor I have now with 300 blackout either right?
 
I'm going to do some checking around about the Suppressor I currently have. If I can and if the light spring doesn't work, then I might get the upper for my AR 15 so that I can shoot 300.
 
You might consider visiting the suppressor's website, or contacting the manufacturer directly to determine what calibers your suppressor is suited for.
 
I have perfered to fire subsonic rounds (.223) out of my AR15.

You need an adjustable gas block. Subsonic rounds have less energy and that means less gas to work the gas driven action.

Adjustable gas block run the gamut from inexpensive to expensive as well as infinite gas adjustment to just a few settings. Do your research and get one that meets your needs.

Adjusting the buffers/bufferspring is not what I would recommend. The recoil system on the AR is meant to be pretty much dirt simple. A properly set up AR can mix and match buffer components (ie Rifle, Carbine, mid-length) and still work just fine. It's meant to be that way so the Army did not have to throw out a whole bunch of parts when they went from Rifles to Carbines as well as the various gas system lengths.

Adjust your gas to get a reliable lock back on an empty magazine. Once your do that you can fine tune it by looking at your ejection pattern. Overgassed works reliably but wears on the weapon more while undergassed is not reliable but is less wear on the system. All your doing in fine tuning your ejection pattern is finding that balance between reliability and wear. Most AR15 owners will never be at the point the wear makes a big difference.

Use the buffers to fine tune the ejection if you please but remember, you are tuning the rifle for one specific lot of ammunition at the current condition of the weapon. Change the ammo and you change the tuning point. Clean weapon vs Dirty Weapon will also change the tuning point. Even the next lot of the same ammo could be different and no longer give you that exact, perfect, ejection pattern.
 
You need an adjustable gas block. Subsonic rounds have less energy and that means less gas to work the gas driven action.

Adjustable gas block run the gamut from inexpensive to expensive as well as infinite gas adjustment to just a few settings. Do your research and get one that meets your needs.

Adjusting the buffers/bufferspring is not what I would recommend. The recoil system on the AR is meant to be pretty much dirt simple. A properly set up AR can mix and match buffer components (ie Rifle, Carbine, mid-length) and still work just fine. It's meant to be that way so the Army did not have to throw out a whole bunch of parts when they went from Rifles to Carbines as well as the various gas system lengths.

Adjust your gas to get a reliable lock back on an empty magazine. Once your do that you can fine tune it by looking at your ejection pattern. Overgassed works reliably but wears on the weapon more while undergassed is not reliable but is less wear on the system. All your doing in fine tuning your ejection pattern is finding that balance between reliability and wear. Most AR15 owners will never be at the point the wear makes a big difference.

Use the buffers to fine tune the ejection if you please but remember, you are tuning the rifle for one specific lot of ammunition at the current condition of the weapon. Change the ammo and you change the tuning point. Clean weapon vs Dirty Weapon will also change the tuning point. Even the next lot of the same ammo could be different and no longer give you that exact, perfect, ejection pattern.
That is 100% wrong. Adjustable gas blocks can only restrict gas flow, they cannot increase it. Thus they are of no help whatsoever with an under gassed gun.

The only way to increase the gas is to increase the size of the hole in the barrel. Not something i would personally reccomended doing.

If the bolt is not cycling. Reducing buffer weight or spring pressure are viable options as those things are what keeps the bolt closed and slows its rate ot travel. But it seems the op has gone as far as possible with no progress.

I feel that the op has gone as far as reasonably possible and it simply is not going to cycle with subsonic ammo. They could possibly fight it more, drill out the gas port, Adjustable gas block, new barrel with a pistol length system and free float handuguard. But it seems like an awful lot to bust a couple coyotes and not annoy the neighbors.

My reccomendation is shoot the super suppressed, bust the coyotes, and fight the rifle another day.
 
That is 100% wrong.

No, it is correct.

You do seem to have a reading comprehension issue though as nobody ever claimed any gas flow was increased. Maybe you just do not understand that less gas means you have to restrict the gas flow to create more pressure in the gas system?

Physics is tough and they obviously do not teach it in school these days. :rolleyes:
 
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