Crimping .44mag with no crimp groove.
- Thread starter Dundgren
- Start date
I would use that bullet or any plated, with or without any crimp line, only for 44 Special or a reduced load in 44 Mag cases. I can see being faced with this choice, if shooting in a place that prohibits use of lead bullets (with crimp grooves). Without full power and the ideal bullet, I think you can have a significant "magnum" experience without bullet setback.
I do NOT think taper crimp is the answer, if wanting full power loads. Then a jacketed bullet is probably what you would need and use of a firm roll crimp.
I do NOT think taper crimp is the answer, if wanting full power loads. Then a jacketed bullet is probably what you would need and use of a firm roll crimp.
I've been looking at on line forums for about 8 or 9 years and the most talked about bullet so far is the plated bullet. I see many, many questions about "How do I crimp my plated bullets" and "what powder/charge do I use with plated bullets". Most are from new reloaders that have been convinced that cheap plated bullets are good for new reloaders. It seems that there isn't enough easy to find data/info on plated bullets and new reloaders just ask questions on forums. I only used approx 2k plated bullets and I really find them just a small bit easier than my cast lead bullets and of not much more use than keeping my fingers lube-free (I think I've got a hundred or so that I'll just drop in my casting pot). I don't have any problems with barrel leading in my 7 guns (revolvers, pistols and rifles) I cast for and if I need higher velocity SD bullets, I'll just go with jacketed bullets designed for that purpose.
Most seasoned reloaders I know that have tried them have no problems as they know the "normal" procedures and can apply plain old horse sense/logic to different components. Demeaning a reloader because of his choices is pretty stupid because 90% of the process is personal choice and there isn't any Reloading Police to kick down his door and confiscate his ammo because he "did it wrong"...
I haven't used any in mebbe 4-5 years and just don't care for them as they are of no benefit to me, my shooting, reloading style nor my guns...
Most seasoned reloaders I know that have tried them have no problems as they know the "normal" procedures and can apply plain old horse sense/logic to different components. Demeaning a reloader because of his choices is pretty stupid because 90% of the process is personal choice and there isn't any Reloading Police to kick down his door and confiscate his ammo because he "did it wrong"...
I haven't used any in mebbe 4-5 years and just don't care for them as they are of no benefit to me, my shooting, reloading style nor my guns...
I can definitely understand that they carry no benefit for you and most likely if pure lead bullets were available to me, I would buy them. But nobody around here stocks them unfortunately. Its either plater or jacketed and jacketed are a "no" since they are so expensive. Im not looking make my own bullets either as I don't see the hours of work making up for the cost.
Now what I just cant fathom is why a manufacture would make .44 bullets with no crimp groove...
Smooth sided plated bullets are cheap and easy to make. Many reloaders can figger out how to make them work, new reloaders not so much.
For the OP. If I were in your situarion I would either get a taper crimp die or use a roll crimp die starting with just enough crimp to remove any mouth flare. Then test. Load a cylinder full and fire 4 or 5 rounds. Remove the last round and measure. If it the bullet moved, add a bit more crimp. Try again adding a bit more crimp until the bullets do not move under recoil, or the plating is cut through (possible plating separation with leading or barrel obstructions).
This is what I based my "stupid" comment on and it's not wise to assume/infer.
For the OP. If I were in your situarion I would either get a taper crimp die or use a roll crimp die starting with just enough crimp to remove any mouth flare. Then test. Load a cylinder full and fire 4 or 5 rounds. Remove the last round and measure. If it the bullet moved, add a bit more crimp. Try again adding a bit more crimp until the bullets do not move under recoil, or the plating is cut through (possible plating separation with leading or barrel obstructions).
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Thanks, mikld. I agree his comment was stupid. I was going to do exactly what you told me. Try roll crimp and measure test. If they keep jumping out or the plating is cut I will buy a taper crimp die.
Thanks.
Awhile back when I couldn't find anything else cheap I bought some 44 cal bullets with no cannelure. I knew I didn't want to use a typical roll crimp and decided to use a taper crimp. I also thought it best to relegate the bullets to low practice/plinking velocities. After loading a few up with a taper crimp, I shot them and left a few in the cylinder for about ten shots and confirmed that with the light loads and taper crimp the bullets weren't jumping.
I should add that I didn't have a 44 cal taper crimp die, and didn't want to buy one if I could avoid it. So I tried using a 30-06 sizing die I already had for a taper crimp and it worked well enough to use up the bullets I had bought.
I should add that I didn't have a 44 cal taper crimp die, and didn't want to buy one if I could avoid it. So I tried using a 30-06 sizing die I already had for a taper crimp and it worked well enough to use up the bullets I had bought.
Pathfinder45
New member
Someone else already mentioned the Lee Factory Crimp collet die which I also like. I would also recommend casting your own bullets, but you have shot that down. Melting lead to cast your own bullets is fine for some of us; it's just not for everyone. But, for a large caliber revolver, you can cast bullets that are as good or better than the best jacketed ones.....
You cannot force these to work against a given of 44 Mag published data. You may have to reduce the loads. Others have indicated use of such bullets with milder loads, and that is to address your concern about bullets moving. Bullets have cannelures and crimp grooves for a reason, so a plain plated bullet requires a compromise. A taper crimp is not a tool for full power magnum loading.
I use plated bullets in 41 Special and I wouldn't expect to find a taper crimp die for that caliber. There is only one 41 magnum crimp die known to work at the shorter length of the Special, the Hornady. To set the minimal crimp, approximating a taper crimp, I use an empty flared case rather than sacrifice a bullet. I simply look for the case mouth flare being removed, and this can be measured with calipers.
I already know there are taper crimp dies for the .44. The plated bullet has its own load-data matching my powder choice on their website.
Fixed that for ya!
There's another solution to this kind of problem. Works with any of the old short rounds that no one makes a die for, IF there is a longer cartridge die commonly available. Find an old seater die (in this case, .41 mag) something old, dingy, loose in a box with 15 other dies of different calibers at a gun show...buy it cheap, take it to a machine shop, and have them cut some of the die body bottom off. Polish it a bit, round sharp edges, and you're set, a fairly cheap "custom" die that lets you use the factory crimp shoulder with very short cases.
Real Gun, if offense was taken, my apologies. None was intended.
I'm afraid there are times when a statement pushes one of my buttons, which releases my tendency to be an obsessive pain in the butt run amok.
One of these is overbroad blanket statements that strike me as inaccurate, as written. "Fixed that for ya!" was my feeble attempt to explain my addition to your statement (in a revolver.) was meant in a friendly, slightly humorous fashion.
We apparently differ slightly on the context of the thread. I am looking at it from the point of view of crimping the .44 Magnum, which includes, but is not exclusive to revolvers.
Taper crimping .44 magnum loads, in revolvers isn't the best way to go about things, not the best tool, as you put it. But, it works fine for .44 magnum loads in semi autos, bolt actions, lever guns, etc., that use a box magazine.
I don't think taper crimping is a good idea for .44 Magnums (or anything else) that uses a tube magazine, no matter what the load level. Roll crimp is needed there because of the way the rounds are fed through the magazine and the action. Tube magazines try to shove bullets deeper in the case, just the opposite of revolvers which try to pull the bullets out during recoil.
I do not believe a heavy taper crimp will reliably hold bullet position in a tube magazine. It might, but I have little faith in it for that. I know a good roll crimp or stab crimp will. (assuming proper case neck tension, bullets with a crimp groove/cannelure, etc.)
I'm probably a bit more aware of this, because I have a box magazine fed, semi auto .44 Magnum, a Desert Eagle. I could taper crimp the ammo for it, and all would be fine. I don't, because I also have a couple of .44Mag revolvers, a Marlin lever gun, and a single shot, and I like all my ammo to be usable in all of them, and a roll crimp works for that.
I'm afraid there are times when a statement pushes one of my buttons, which releases my tendency to be an obsessive pain in the butt run amok.
One of these is overbroad blanket statements that strike me as inaccurate, as written. "Fixed that for ya!
" was my feeble attempt to explain my addition to your statement (in a revolver.) was meant in a friendly, slightly humorous fashion.We apparently differ slightly on the context of the thread. I am looking at it from the point of view of crimping the .44 Magnum, which includes, but is not exclusive to revolvers.
Taper crimping .44 magnum loads, in revolvers isn't the best way to go about things, not the best tool, as you put it. But, it works fine for .44 magnum loads in semi autos, bolt actions, lever guns, etc., that use a box magazine.
I don't think taper crimping is a good idea for .44 Magnums (or anything else) that uses a tube magazine, no matter what the load level. Roll crimp is needed there because of the way the rounds are fed through the magazine and the action. Tube magazines try to shove bullets deeper in the case, just the opposite of revolvers which try to pull the bullets out during recoil.
I do not believe a heavy taper crimp will reliably hold bullet position in a tube magazine. It might, but I have little faith in it for that. I know a good roll crimp or stab crimp will. (assuming proper case neck tension, bullets with a crimp groove/cannelure, etc.)
I'm probably a bit more aware of this, because I have a box magazine fed, semi auto .44 Magnum, a Desert Eagle. I could taper crimp the ammo for it, and all would be fine. I don't, because I also have a couple of .44Mag revolvers, a Marlin lever gun, and a single shot, and I like all my ammo to be usable in all of them, and a roll crimp works for that.